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yall arguing over puppets.
we’re all america, we all own this.
Presidents and Atrocities
President Key Events (Updated for Trump) Death Toll Estimate Score George H.W. Bush (1989-1993) Gulf War civilian deaths; post-uprising abandonments; War on Drugs disparities.[11][12] 20k-100k+ Medium-High Bill Clinton (1993-2001) Iraq sanctions (500k+ kids); Balkans bombing; Rwanda inaction.[ prior] 500k+ indirect High George W. Bush (2001-2009) Iraq/Afghan wars (1M+); torture programs.[13] 1M+ High Barack Obama (2009-2017) Drone strikes (3k-10k); Libya chaos (20k+); 3M deportations.[ prior] 50k+ Medium Donald Trump (2017-2021, 2025-) Family separations (5k+ kids, thousands missing); Yemen support (400k+); USAID cuts (14M+ projected by 2030, 100k+ actual so far); COVID negligence (1M+ US).[1][4][8][ prior] 1M+ US + 14M+ global projected High Joe Biden (2021-2025) Gaza support (40k+); Afghan withdrawal chaos.[ prior] 50k+ Medium Key Impacts of Recent Policies
Trump’s USAID shutdown (83% cut in 2025) has reversed 91M lives saved (2001-2021), projecting 14M+ excess deaths by 2030 from HIV, malaria, TB, malnutrition—comparable to a pandemic. Israeli support continues U.S. pattern but isn’t uniquely escalated here; no data confirms Venezuelan bombings. ICE/migrant camp claims lack death toll evidence beyond separations, though humanitarian crises persist.[ prior] Both parties bear responsibility, but scale of aid cuts elevates Trump’s current score.[5][6][8][9][1]
Sources [1] Study Projects Over 14 Million Preventable Deaths by 2030 … https://www.isglobal.org/en/-/mas-de-14-millones-de-muertes-prevenibles-de-aqui-a-2030-si-continuan-los-recortes-a-la-financiacion-de-usaid [2] Tracking Anticipated Deaths from USAID Funding Cuts | SPH https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2025/tracking-anticipated-deaths-from-usaid-funding-cuts/ [3] School of Public Health: Tracking anticipated deaths from USAID funding cuts https://www.pslhub.org/learn/organisations-linked-to-patient-safety-uk-and-beyond/international-patient-safety/school-of-public-health-tracking-anticipated-deaths-from-usaid-funding-cuts-r13173/ [4] USAID cuts may cause 14 million more deaths in next five years, study says https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/07/01/usaid-cuts-aid-14-million-deaths/ [5] Research finds more than 14 million preventable deaths by 2030 if … https://ph.ucla.edu/news-events/news/research-finds-more-14-million-preventable-deaths-2030-if-usaid-defunding [6] Rubio hails end of USAID as study says its elimination could contribute to 14 million deaths in next 5 years https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/01/politics/us-aid-elimination-study-14-million-deaths [7] [PDF] BU researcher warns of 367,000 deaths from halted USAID programs https://www.medschool.umaryland.edu/media/som/news/news-logos/BU-researcher-warns-of-367,000-deaths-from-halted-USAID-programs_.pdf [8] USAID shutdown has led to hundreds of thousands of deaths https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/usaid-shutdown-has-led-to-hundreds-of-thousands-of-deaths/ [9] The Shutdown of U.S.A.I.D. Has Already Killed Hundreds of Thousands https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary/the-shutdown-of-usaid-has-already-killed-hundreds-of-thousands [10] “It’s Unacceptable”: BU Mathematician Tracks How Many Deaths … https://www.bu.edu/articles/2025/mathematician-tracks-deaths-from-usaid-medicaid-cuts/ [11] Mehdi Hasan on George H.W. Bush’s Ignored Legacy: War Crimes … https://www.democracynow.org/2018/12/3/mehdi_hasan_on_george_hw_bushs [12] George H.W. Bush leaves mixed record on race, civil rights https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/12/03/george-h-w-bush-race-civil-rights-war-drugs/2197675002/ [13] Criminal complaint against Gerorge W Bush - ECCHR https://www.ecchr.eu/en/case/criminal-complaint-against-bush/
also, obama is responsible for the largest domestic spying operation in history. Thank you Edward Snowden for your sacrifice. Russian exile is a poor payback by the American citizenry.
we’re all america, we all own this.
Not everyone on the internet is American. From a non-American perspective, it is good you point out that previous presidencies also have a death toll. Doesn’t get much better if you go further back, either.
Not that chauvanism is a specifically American disease, but I can’t help but think that American exceptionalism means that America is often in denial. Imagine having to explain naming a clothing store Banana Republic, to a survivor of the Guatamalan genocide.
Weirdly, it’s actually quite reassuring from a non-American perspective. Trump’s bad, but not exceptionally so.
Sure he’s stabbing Europe and Ukraine in the back, but Bush and Obama helped cause and perpetuate a refugee crisis that seriously destabilized the EU and helped fuel the rise of the far right. Not as if Biden was particularly quick in delivering weapons to Ukraine either. Obama’s reaction to the annexation of Crimea wasn’t stellar either.
Sure, he’ll probably invade Venezuela, but Maduro is no Allende, and the leader of Venezuela’s opposition is no Pinochet.
Sure, he’s tariffed South East Asia, but he’s not going to start another war in Vietnam or bomb Laos.
Sure, he bombed Tehran, but it’s not as if he overthrew the democratically elected government, and paved the way for the Islamic Revolution. That was Eisenhower.
Sure, Trump’s supporting Netenyahu. But under Reagan the US arguably helped Iraq build chemical weapons, knowing that Saddam would use them against the Iranians and Kurds.
Sure, Trump’s a racist who has a contentious relationship with African leaders, and is perpetuating the myth of a white genocide in South Africa. But it’s not like he had Lumumba, the democratically elected leader of newly indepenent Congo murdered, that happened under Eisenhower. An assassination that would arguably ultimately result in the first and second Congo war, and the death of roughly 5 million people.
It should be reassuring for Americans too.
Sure, ICE is bad, but it’s not like he’s put 120,000 people in concentration camps like Roosevelt did. He hasn’t deported up to 2 million Mexican and Mexican Americans either, like happened under Hoover. Not yet, at least.
Cheer up America. This is business as usual. This is America. Don’t catch you slippin’ now.
Love me some shitlib slander.
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It was not a mistake, it should have been an obligation. It says a lot when the complaints are going to the people who made an effort to bring transparency to the public even when it didn’t make them look good, specially when they were in no way the worst culprits of the accusations they are trying to frame on them.
Uh… what exactly is Obama being “framed” for here?
Literally most ghoulish thing I’ve read today. How do you even sleep at night?
.world sanewashing of mass murder when their guy does it keeps them asleep. Murder is bad except when they do it.
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saying war criminal president (POC edition) murdered the people he murdered is actually “the exact same tactics as Trumpers.” 🤡🤡🤡
So is the drone strikes okay with you?
oh no, how could we make that mistake in a meme?
scratches out millions and writes thousands
you’re right, that makes him such a morally upstanding person! 🙃
He’s so much nicer when he killed them! He did it with a smile and a quick joke, like when he threatened his daughter’s boyfriend with a drone strike as a joke.
He’s a liberal Ronald Reagan, if he had a joke it’s now okay.
Hell, given everything we know about the Yemeni Civil War and the War on Terror, millions sounds about right.
Why do people keep dunking specifically on Obama for this? Isn’t this the same as every US president ever?
Because everyone here already knows that other recent US presidents like Bush and Trump were horrible. But many people mistakenly believe Obama was a morally good president simply because they’re the best of a bad bunch. It’s important to understand that even Obama presided over large-scale, avoidable atrocities.
Maybe because he’s the only one who made someone happy?
Propaganda
Obama was the “change” guy that libs thought was gonna make everyone’s lives better. The rest of them are known to be evil pieces of shit, but libs with zero principles need to be reminded of their naivety. Notice how Obama deported the most Mexicans of any president ever and libs dont even give a fuck lmao.
You do remember who preceded Obama, right? At the time, W. was the dumbest president the world had ever seen. In comparison to that, I’d say Obama delivered on the hope and change.
I’m not saying that I can excuse his take on deportation, or the fact that he’s also an establishment democrat, but at this point, who the fuck cares? I’d take another Obama over Trump in a heartbeat. I’d rather have someone in office that I agree with 40% of their takes than 0%.
Obviously he’s neither perfect now, nor was he at the time, but why are people still talking about him at all? Same with Biden. His administration shit the bed and got us in the current situation, but there’s not anything we can do about it now.
We need to be looking forward, and dunking on someone who was (in comparison to US presidents) always ranked in the top 20% of most progressive of ALL presidents, and only behind Carter in the last 50 years… it seems like in order to get more left, we’ve got a lot of ground to cover and Obama would be in the correct direction.
W. was the dumbest president the world had ever seen.
Went to Harvard and Yale. First president with an MBA. SAT score was good. His folksy act was just that. An act. He was told to dumb down his language by Karl Rove and others. There are videos of him speaking before he became a presidential nominee, and the difference is obvious.
Relatively intelligent man pretending to be stupid.
And to his credit, it worked. Got elected twice and to this day people are more likely to blame the Iraq war on evil mastermind Cheney. And unlike plenty of supposedly intelligent leaders, he’s smart enough to keep a low profile now he’s retired.
Were you alive and old enough to remember GWB’s term? Or are you going entirely on second hand information?
Because I am, and he was definitely a fucking idiot.
For fuck sake, Donald Trump went to Wharton. It just means they had rich and well connected parents.
Were you alive and old enough to remember GWB’s term? Or are you going entirely on second hand information?
Yes. I was studying political science at the time.
No, I am not going by second hand information. I’m going by how he spoke before Karl Rove told him to dumb it down.
Donald Trump went to Wharton
At least one of Donald Trump’s professors has said he’s an idiot. Not true for Bush, who scored relatively well on his SATs. IRC John Kerry’s transcript scored lower than W Bush’s. IRC Bush’s air force qualifying test was also relatively high.
To be clear, I’m not saying he’s a good president. If anything I’m saying stupidity isn’t an excuse for what happened during his tenure.
Remember when Dubya was the dumbest one?
Relatively intelligent man pretending to be stupid.
You can actually look up footage from when he was Governor of Texas in the 1990s and he was well-spoken and intelligent (despite his saying very little that I agreed with). Did he have an aneurysm prior to the 2000 election? Not very likely, especially when Republicans have been consciously targeting their rhetoric at a fifth-grade reading level for decades.
I don’t understand why we’re so willing to believe that the people who have completely taken over the United States of America with minimal effort have somehow done this while being literally stupid.
I don’t understand why we’re so willing to believe that the people who have completely taken over the United States of America with minimal effort have somehow done this while being literally stupid.
Overused, but might be Dunning Kruger. Less intelligent people, overestimating their own intelligence, and underestimating that of others. If so, it would explain why the same people who are certain Bush is a moron, are often unwilling to change their minds when presented with evidence to the contrary. That and it feels nice to think you’re smarter than other people. Vanity is the Devil’s favourite sin.
Not that I like Bush, just want to make that clear.
Also, Trump likely is stupid, from what I can tell. Although I have heard critics say he has or at one point had a measure of cunning, which certainly may be true given he won the presidency twice.
Not that this changes Trump being a dangerous man.
Trump is literally a reality TV star, which means his public persona is sort of loosely based on who he really is but also heavily improvised and scripted at the same time in order to increase his entertainment value. Based on my familiarity with him from before all of this bullshit (in the '80s), he’s no genius but he’s not especially stupid either. Like a lot of rich people, he doesn’t bother being smart because intelligence is of no real use to him.
He is good at flooding the zone/firehosing/deadcatting. That’s for sure.
Not a great way to run a country, not sure if it’s always deliberate and/or pathological, but good for ratings and helped get him elected twice.
I do think he has declined mentally since the 80s. He’s an old man, doesn’t always look well, and appears increasingly erratic. Not a doctor though, so what do I know. I’ve grown cynical about his supposedly imminent demise, just like I’ve become cynical about his supposedly imminent jail sentence.
Oh look, another plain-speaking “smart” republican that needs interpretation and rationalization to tell us who he really is and what he really means.
Sure man. Canned speeches vs real time. Not even in the same league as Obama. Dude got the job because of the family name and thought it would be an easy ride until reality hit him right in thr nose. Then he got all fundy and stubborn. Know who else graduated from prestigious schools and is president? Yeah, bet you can guess.
Nope. Saw him speaking off the cuff before he was a presidential nominee.
Relatively high SAT score. Score higher on his transcript than John Kerry. IRC scored relatively high on his air force qualifying test too.
He purposely dumbed down his language and it helped him get elected.
As opposed to Donald Trump, where at least one professor has said he’s a moron.
To be clear, I’m not saying Bush was a good president. Quite the opposite. If anything him being relatively intelligent makes him more culpable for what happened.
Obama wasn’t a progressive, he just sounded progressive. He had a mandate, a majority in both houses, and what does he do?
Continue everything the last guy did, pass the healthcare plan from the creators of project 2025, and attempt to “reach across the isle” towards people openly racist towards him
If we had another Obama, we’d just be putting fascism on hold for another 8 years. We can’t keep splitting the difference with the far right
But the choice will be Trump-like or Obama-like. There is no “progressive revolution” option at this time.
Complaining about Obama-like is pushing a both sides narrative, which suppresses democrat voters.
If you want things to be less shit, stop doing that.
These people refuse to acknowledge a step in the right direction. And from bush to obama is an obvious step in the right direction, just wish we didnt do a double backflip with a twist that is trump
I refuse your defeatist nonsense. There’s 3 years left, progressives are making huge inroads into both local governments and the party machinery, and the old guard is being changed out
Even if I were wrong about it, that’s still the only way out. Obama-like means nothing changes, Biden was Obama-like - we didn’t recover from Trump I, Biden just stabilized the new normal and insisted it’s fine now.
We have to demand better, starting now. While we have the time
I don’t think you understand politics or progression.
Your entire take is that Obama just held the ground. We forget we could have had Mitt Romney who would have been just as worse if not far worse a choice than Obama.
I see tons of comparisons, we need better! We need to do better! And everyone is comparing the president how to Obama and the president then to Obama. America did absolutely better picking Obama over Mitt Romney and I am confused as to why we aren’t comparing the president then to the competitor then.
You can disagree with 60 percent of what a president did and argue people on the opposite side are going to react and just push the change back but if you want real change you pick the person that has 40% of what you agree with and you do that time and time again <until it is 50 percent and so on so forth.
Feel how you want but setting here and going, Everyone praises Obama and he did the shit those people complain about is just a dumb ass way of looking at what Obama brought to the table. It took one idiot in office to destroy the good he did and the good Biden tried to hold on to.
Sitting here and spouting nonsense that Obama would still be a worse choice is just a shit view. It would 100% still be better than the fucking moron we have in office now and I would take 40 Obama’s for the next 10 years over 40 Trumps. It is a common sense statement to act self righteous with, “we gotta do better than Trump or Obama.” Yeah, we get it. That is the obvious statement. But to say Obama was a bad choice given the margin of difference between him vs Trump is just fucking stupid no matter where you stand. To say if we had Obama vs Trump and we shouldn’t pick another Obama is stupid because “we have to do better.” That isn’t how shit works either. You pick what is good in the moment.
I am not sure why people suddenly forget the president doesn’t run the whole country when it comes to decision making. So suddenly we start just comparing the presidents but the office in power with the president is a big deal as well.
Obama may have made many decisions the majority of libs are complaining about but the problem is Libs liked him because of what he stood for on the better side of things versus the shit in office now. The Obama standard is the good we had until Trump and that is why it is the still wanted standard because it meant something even with the bad.
So feel how you want but taking the stance of, “we got a do better.” Isn’t a winning case. It is just a statement. Getting people to see some of the good that was done then is what matters and Obama had some of that and that is the point. You have to have something to look at and compare too. Who would you suggest would be better now? How would we do better? Could you help run a country with all of your wisdom? No, Obama would still be 100 times better and I would pick and Obama any fucking day even if it just meant slowing cons down or holding their ridiculous mind set off for a thousand years.
This is such a strange world view. It’s as though you think politics and society are on a linear track and they can only go forwards or backwards and any progress in your preferred direction is preferable because the other direction is diametrically opposed to the only other option which is sliding the train the other direction.
That’s not how any of this works. No, Obama did not move the country in the right direction. Obama continued the violent brutal genocidal policies of the USA, continued reinforcing the dominance of the owners over the workers, and continued the domestic policy of bread and circuses for the working class to avoid unrest.
Romney being worse than Obama would have been LITERALLY the same program with different details.
Obama was LITERALLY the same program as Bush with different details.
We are looking forward by making excuses for our past? Lol okay.
The fuck excuses? We can do better than this, but you’ve gotta look at everything in context. Until we have a (most likely violent) revolution, the core values of our leadership isn’t going to swing very wildly. Incremental change is all that voting will get you. Obama wasn’t some god that was suddenly going to change what this country is, but he was a step away from Bush and in the right direction. It’s shocking to me how far from normal Trump is and its fucking infuriating that instead of looking forward, part of the left is all “b-b-b-but Obama wasn’t perfect!”
It’s like I agree with your observations but come to different conclusions about what is to be done. I agree Obama, nor any other politician can deliver the change we need given the system we have. To me the lesson isn’t Obama was so much better than Bush or Trump, but that we need to look to ourselves and not for some great leader to save us.
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Yeah how dare we dislike murder, that’s clearly too much purity testing.
In comparison to that, I’d say Obama delivered on the hope and change.
That’s not how that works. Either he delivered on hope and change or he didn’t; there’s no “in comparison.”
but why are people still talking about him at all?
Because libs will gladly lap up/force on everyone else another Obama (see how they talk about Newsom). It’s important to remember the failures of the past so that when corporate lizards and their party hacks pretend another establishment liberal will change things they’re not taken seriously.
We need to be looking forward
This “looking forward” schtick only means that known bad faith actors can keep influencing politics. It’s simply a bad idea.
Obama would be in the correct direction.
Absolutely not. Obama was and remains an establishment stooge whose job is to stifle progress wherever it can be found. Obama rode a wave of progressive resurgence and killed it; he shares only slightly less of the blame for the current situation than people like Bush and Reagan. Incremental change through the likes of Obama is a myth built on the assumption that reactionaries won’t reverse every bit of change made and more.
Quiet, liberal.
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I can’t tell if this is a bit. It’s perfect.
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I still can’t tell. You need a full orchestra following you playing ‘hall of the mountain king’ nonstop.
What in gods name are you doing in a community called “leftymemes”??
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Because he made a lot of dumb kids believe he would be the good one, the was just another bog standard piece of shit, except better at talking.
He made people hope, then murdered that hope¹ with a hellfire missile launched from a drone, to the point we dare not hope on days with a clear blue sky.
¹for anyone who paid literally any attention or had a memory longer than 12 seconds. Also all the people he murdered, but neither of us care about them.
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If any liberal has ever done any wrong ever, made any misstep, caused any negative emotion; thats because the speaker personally architected the american fascist movement.
You cannot fail, only be failed. You cannot wrong, only be wronged. It’s a beautiful perfect little solipsistic victim complex that requires a perfectly hitlerian reading of every text, every event.
Never mind who actually architecture the rise of trump, or why.¹
¹for those not old enough: in 2016 Hilary Clinton helped him through his party’s primaries and built a huge chunk of his machine, on the assumption she’d have an easy win, because 2016 was her turn and she’d ‘earned it’.
How did you get that from the comment?
But like Obama was still better by leagues among his peers. Sure Obama killed a few people, you think Bush didn’t? What about Biden? Carter? At least he didn’t sick his ICE troopers on American citizens, we got accessible healthcare, a black president, repealing some war on drug laws. Obama is a saint compared to his peers. Sorry he killed a few people while ensuring a generation could have healthcare. Powerful people do bad things 🥱. Acting like the Pope hasn’t killed people lol
Don’t know whether this is good ragebait or vile shitlib slop ^^’
acting like
Where am i acting like that?
powerful people do bad things
Yes, so I’m an anarchist, and I dont suck their dicks about it
so he killed a few people while ensuring
That the banks got bailed out and people lost their homes. That none of the problems were fundamentally fixed. That occupy was stepped on har. He promised hope, and then murdered it. Along with a bunch of people.
I’m not interested in what an ignorant boot licker with no memory has to say about politics or history.bi doubt you can comprehend either topic.
Cool so acknowledging that a president moved the needle means that I cannot also support a revolution. Thanks for saying X means Y and Z, it really widens people’s perspectives. I upvoted your comment in another thread, we’re all friends here but truly thanks for calling me an ignorant bootlicker
Sorry maybe I missed the bit?
I’d respond to your points, but the way you speak makes me confident that our values are too different (read: your values are too disgusting). I’m sure you wouldn’t be saying that if you had family among those “few people” Obama killed.
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I’m not a fan of screaming at walls so I won’t write a wall of text (pun not intended), but Obama’s healthcare policy was literally written by the Heritage Foundation. Yes, the Project 2025 Heritage Foundation. Obamacare is literally Romneycare. Dwell on that for a bit.
This is the discourse I like to see. I had no clue Obama was endorsed by the Heritage Foundation. Instead of assuming people are stupid and can’t comprehend something start with compassion and patience. Sure I started sounding like an Obama ‘apologist’ but I also didn’t vote for him, I was 8 and 12, respectively, when he was elected into office. Before I was 18 I was staunchly alt right by way of social media and YouTube ragebait. I disappointedly voted liberal in the last few elections because… yeah 2 party systems suck.
Spicy take from a guy named after a Dilbert character.
Damn I really need to start looking at usernames more… That dude is a chud
the point is to drive a wedge between leftists (who see him as just another imperialist figurehead) and liberals (who see him as the most progressive president we’ve had since lbj)
What an insane false dichotomy.
it’s not a dichotomy in the first place lol
Ah yes, liberals. Known for being famously aligned with leftism.
…yeah that’s the point.
Your comment makes more sense after you edited it. Otherwise it read as “typical leftist infighting with liberals” sentiment
I presume you’re a shitlib?
What of our programs are you on board with?
Since your party has spent the last year trying to kill the president by sucking his dick like the offspring of Nancy reagan and a jet engine til he has a heart attack, I presume you’ve decided to back left projects, the projects of your allies, until there’s a viable lib option again.
What are your mutual aid projects? How do you support your local socialist groups? Are you going more militant/insurrectionist and arming the most marginalized in your community? No need to be too overly specific.
I presume you’re a shitlib?
why?
Thinking libs are allied with the left, presumably because you don’t understand that gaighting is rude. Vut back to my questions; I asked first
what?
My question.
What of our programs are you on board with?
Since your party has spent the last year trying to kill the president by sucking his dick like the offspring of Nancy reagan and a jet engine til he has a heart attack, I presume you’ve decided to back left projects, the projects of your allies, until there’s a viable lib option again. What are your mutual aid projects?
How do you support your local socialist groups? Are you going more militant/insurrectionist and arming the most marginalized in your community? No need to be too overly specific.
Please answer. Or so you mean ‘rightful owner’ rather than ‘ally’? Like, when I’m in a place where I don’t feel like being seen out and about doing my own thing and don’t have local anarchist friends, I’ll cook for local tankie meetings or see what I can offer DSA.
So how are you an ally? In what way?
lol i thought you were doing a bit about how confrontational and entitled lemmings can be over the most innocuous comments, you’re serious?
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[citation needed]
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Sure Jan.
The right can’t attack the left because the left just laughs at them, but the right can attack the left by pretending to be the most left and then call out the left for not being left enough.
tell me, if liberals are “the left”, then why are they fighting so damn hard against people like mamdani for being leftists?
if you’re gonna be a fucking idiot, do it somewhere else, so the rest of us don’t have to step in your drool.
Liberals are the right. Please read a book for once in your life…
Liberalism is not strictly left or right. It’s anti-authoritarian, and authoritarianism is a type of political inequality maintained by a social hierarchy of political subjugation.
Political scientists recognize leftist liberals
Political scientists and other analysts usually regard the left as including anarchists, communists, socialists, democratic socialists, social democrats, left-libertarians, progressives, and social liberals.
Modern US liberalism consists of progressives & social liberals. Liberal socialism is a liberal variety of socialism. Social democracy is a form of socialism within liberal democracy. All these ideologies are liberal & leftist, and some are even socialist.
Maybe you should pick up that book.
The link you provided doesn’t really back what you’re saying. The anti-authoritarian element is only part of a specific branch of French Liberalism according to this source (not a real source btw) so you aren’t even correct about that really.
Any dipshit knows that an ideology that is pro-capitalism can’t be leftist. That’s just basic politics really.
You’re basically admitting to poor reading comprehension & ignorance of references cited in the articles.
Any dipshit knows that an ideology that is pro-capitalism can’t be leftist. That’s just basic politics really.
Not talking about capitalism, talking about liberalism: liberal leftists exist. Some are socialist. Political scientists recognize them as leftist. Deal with it.
As the article you mischaracterize states
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy
not an economic one.
liberalism is about liberty from unlimited authority
As the name indicates, liberalism concerns liberty: it’s essentially the position that
- governments exist for the people
- individual human rights & liberties are fundamental
- authority is legitimate only when it protects those fundamental rights & liberties
- the people have an inherent right to obtain a government with legitimate authority.
In particular, when their government lacks or loses legitimacy, the people have a right & duty to replace or change that government until it obtains legitimacy. Such a government prohibits unlimited authority, so it’s mutually exclusive with authoritarianism.
The article continues that liberalism is
based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property, and equality before the law
which reaffirms earlier points & then some. It emerged from the Enlightenment when the authoritarianism of its time was the exclusive power & social hierarchy of feudal, absolute monarchy & aristocracy.
Liberalism sought to replace the norms of hereditary privilege, state religion, absolute monarchy, the divine right of kings and traditional conservatism with representative democracy, rule of law, and equality under the law.
Anyone who read history or philosophy & thought seriously would know this.
His authorization of drone attacks was sad. But millions? More like thousands.
The war on terror is estimated to have killed a little under 5 million, and it’s not the only evil murderous thing Obama has done or furthered, so arguably he has killed millions, though I’d need to see a good argument for it before I accept it as anything other than a meme.
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So the murder was cool with you then?
Obama’s role in the war on terror is a lot bigger than just his drone policy, but it’s also unclear how many human lives his decision to, say, continue the war in Afghanistan and drag his feet on Iraqi withdrawal cost, so like I said I’d need to see a good argument before I took a serious position on this. To be clear, though, we’re still talking hundreds of thousands minimum here due to his role in the Yemeni and Libyan civil wars.
The war on terror was Bush’s legacy. Wild to see people putting this shit entirely on Obama.
How the heck does that contradict anything I said?
You literally put the war on terror entirely on Obama, are you for real? Who upvotes this shit?
You literally put the war on terror entirely on Obama
I… I literally didn’t. Obama played a big part in the war on terror (having, you know, run it for eight years), so he gets a share of the 5 million dead and 40 million displaced, but how much that share is is very debatable.
You literally did though:
The war on terror is estimated to have killed a little under 5 million, and it’s not the only evil murderous thing Obama has done or furthered, so arguably he has killed million
Keyword here is “furthered.” With context it should be pretty obvious that I did not in fact mean what you insist I meant.
It’s a meme
Are propaganda posters just posters?
Yeah dude, dunking on your favourite war criminal is propaganda. Relax sweetheart.
Don’t sleep on Legend of the Galactic Heros. One of the greatest scifi dramas of all time.
I couldn’t get into it. I don’t know if it’s too dry, or too many characters, but I dropped off after some twenty episodes.
Yeah I tried really hard to like it but it was simply too slow and dry. Like I found the plot intriguing, but gosh I get why what most editors do for the first draft is cut a whole bunch out (to the dismay of authors)
I’m kinda into reading about military history so I thought I’d like it, but the writers weren’t very good. Specifically, the worldbuilding was OK, the characters were OK, but the plotting was clumsy.
It’s mostly just really really long.
Think we’re around 200 episodes if we combine all the various iterations.
You’re a tool
Of what/whom? Please ellaborate
