People here (just lemmy generally) tend to be completely irrational and anal about terms and just want to dunk on the establishment while having no actual plans to achieve their goals.
Basically, most people here (myself included) are progressives, in favour of many socialist elements in the short term and even more in the longer term, and there are some lunatics who somehow want soviet union style socialism (not realizing that that would obviously and inherently immediately lead to the type of corruption we saw there).
They are quite displeased with the democrats in the US who they view as (and I agree) center right neoliberals, which just basically means they’re mostly fine with things continuing as is, sans the most obvious horrific things.
They frequently fail to realize that because there is a 2 party system (as its winner takes all/first past the post) that the literal only way to get any progressive momentum is through continued strong support of said democrats (or whatever major party is closest to their views) whilst using primaries, local and state politics (or equivalents for other countries) to shift them towards being progressive, and so they love to make edgy memes about revolutions they will never carry out (because that’s easy, fun, and doesn’t require real work) rather than the boring, unfun, actionable plans that do work.
Just to be clear, of course my criticisms apply for the people being impractical, and not the practical progressives, protesting, still voting, etc etc.
This is more or less similar in any western nation with winner takes all/first past the post. These systems suck because they make change very difficult and severely shorten the levers people have on the political processes of their countries, but we live in the world we have, not the world we wish we had.
Not down voting you, in case it matters to ya, but largely disagree.
People here (just lemmy generally) tend to be completely irrational and anal about terms and just want to dunk on the establishment while having no actual plans to achieve their goals.
That’s what I have always found almost anywhere, and Lemmy is the first place online where I’ve run into the opposite - sincere, informed, motivated individuals who not only have a plan, but actively work towards it IRL. Sure, there’s plenty of do-nothing know-it-all types, I’ve almost certainly been one myself here more than once - but if you’re seeing that as the primary Lemmy thing, sounds like you just need to curate your Lemmy feed. Get away from the folks wanting to recreate Reddit, ya know? Pretty sure that’s where a lotta the “I know everything, but have done and will do nothing” personalities came from anyway.
I don’t find this to be true. There are real activist groups that meet and have actual plans to support parties, policies etc with door to door campaigning and more. You have none of that on Lemmy. Just people making guillotine memes.
and Lemmy is the first place online where I’ve run into the opposite - sincere, informed, motivated individuals who not only have a plan, but actively work towards it IRL.
I have not seen a singular person who that description fits my entire time being on Lemmy.
but if you’re seeing that as the primary Lemmy thing, sounds like you just need to curate your Lemmy feed.
This seems really dismissive without any actionable examples.
Get away from the folks wanting to recreate Reddit, ya know? Pretty sure that’s where a lotta the “I know everything, but have done and will do nothing” personalities came from anyway.
I actually disagree tremendously, because something that has actually bothered me was seeing that reddit has more communities with people who actually plan protests, campaigns, user action, etc.
I imagine part of that is due to the much smaller lemmy user numbers, but I haven’t seen any actual events result from lemmy.
We really have very different experiences it seems. And honestly, I think that’s for the best! A big strength of federation-style tech.
Some responses:
I intentionally stopped short of pointing you toward the parts of Lemmy I was talking about. I don’t know you - if you’re curious, you’ll find em; but I don’t know you and they aren’t “my” spaces, I’m not going to inflict you on them just to make a point, know what I mean?
if you’re willing (feel free to tell me to fuck myself lol, given my statement above), where are you finding these “real activist groups”? I can’t say I’ve ever once seen the like online. To be fair, I tuned out of “social media” (the big platforms) more than 10 years ago and spent a considerable amount of that time jaded and uninvolved on that level.
I really can’t understand any defence of modern Reddit whatsoever (assuming you’re defending modern Reddit, you didn’t indicate otherwise). For a long time now it’s been hilariously controlled, are you talking about subreddits that have managed to fly under the radar or something?
completely agree that we got a whoooole lotta thoughtless meme’ing here. Pretty much comes with the territory though…
Oh, edit to add - I also haven’t seen IRL events organized on Lemmy, agree with you there. That’s not at all what I was saying, my bad - I meant that I run into folks who do IRL organizing, and happen to chime in about things online. The opposite of “online -> IRL” you’re describing.
I’m not going to inflict you on them just to make a point, know what I mean?
That seems weirdly hostile
if you’re curious, you’ll find em;
Groups looking to take action should be trying to be seen, not acting like a secret society. This alone means they’re almost certainly failing in their duties, if they exist at all.
where are you finding these “real activist groups”?
Reddit often has location specific subreddits. Often times a cities subreddit for instance might organize a protest, rally, transport for voting, etc.
I really can’t understand any defence of modern Reddit whatsoever (assuming you’re defending modern Reddit, you didn’t indicate otherwise).
What a crazy logical leap this whole bit is. “You didn’t say something completely unrelated so therefore you must have opinion I made up”.
There is obviously a lot wrong with modern reddit, but that’s about management and ownership of the site, and therefore the enshitification and control.
What I was discussing is the people using said site. Two obviously separate concepts.
are you talking about subreddits that have managed to fly under the radar or something?
Not every bit of positive action is so brazen and offensive that it would violate TOS.
completely agree that we got a whoooole lotta thoughtless meme’ing here. Pretty much comes with the territory though…
The signal to noise ratio is veeeery low here though. There are also a shit ton of weirdly pro russia/pro CCP noise with people who seem to trying to be impossible to talk to on purpose for some reason. Like they aren’t trying to actually effectively convince anyone of anything, just circle jerk in a weird cult like atmosphere where they just vaguely bust out stalinisms.
You don’t seem to really even be trying to read my comments charitably, a courtesy I’ve been extending to you. That’s not a discussion, it’s just trying to score points on someone.
What a weird bout of projection. Your weaponized civility was not well camoflauged at all. It was right out there in the open, especially given you started with “I’m not going to inflict you on them”
You baited out a comment with effort just to put out a comment with no effort accusing me of what you’re doing when literally all of your queries were answered. Troll behaviour.
You couldn’t be more wrong dude. I was sincerely interested in what you had to say. My “not going to inflict you on them” was entirely couched in an explanation most people would consider reasonable, and phrased in a way that I tried to make clear wasn’t an attack - it was only unfamiliarity. What I said is I don’t know you, not that I dislike you. And ya know what? Turns out I was right lol, you’re impossible to talk to!
You’re doing the thing right now. You’ve made up your mind completely about who I am and what I’m up to, and anything I say, you interpret through that lens.
I can’t help you with that. And sheesh, even speaking politely is interpreted by you as a trolling tactic? Get a fucking grip, you sound like an asshole and a moron. Why would anyone who disagrees with you bother to go through this? Besides which, you’re just wrong. You don’t have to go far through my comment history to find an instance of me strongly disagreeing with someone (re: recent comments by Obama). At the end of it, I realized they were right, I was the one misreading, and I apologized. But hey, maybe that’s another one of my sophisticated troll techniques!
I don’t hate you, I’m not mad at you, I don’t wish you ill will. I just don’t want to talk to you, and wish I hadn’t bothered.
Go ahead and spin this comment into whatever weird shit, too, should be entertaining.
Ah look, another big toxic comment not even passive aggressively hurling insults.
Not even worth the time to read it all. Apparently your “You do you, but I’m all done.” was indeed an obvious lie. (Double downvoting me with an alt is hillarious shit too)
Thanks, and no worries. I’m used to that here. I just wish there was more sane and productive conversation about how to actually get the goals people who in theory agree with me politically accomplished.
People here (just lemmy generally) tend to be completely irrational and anal about terms and just want to dunk on the establishment while having no actual plans to achieve their goals.
Basically, most people here (myself included) are progressives, in favour of many socialist elements in the short term and even more in the longer term, and there are some lunatics who somehow want soviet union style socialism (not realizing that that would obviously and inherently immediately lead to the type of corruption we saw there).
They are quite displeased with the democrats in the US who they view as (and I agree) center right neoliberals, which just basically means they’re mostly fine with things continuing as is, sans the most obvious horrific things.
They frequently fail to realize that because there is a 2 party system (as its winner takes all/first past the post) that the literal only way to get any progressive momentum is through continued strong support of said democrats (or whatever major party is closest to their views) whilst using primaries, local and state politics (or equivalents for other countries) to shift them towards being progressive, and so they love to make edgy memes about revolutions they will never carry out (because that’s easy, fun, and doesn’t require real work) rather than the boring, unfun, actionable plans that do work.
Just to be clear, of course my criticisms apply for the people being impractical, and not the practical progressives, protesting, still voting, etc etc.
This is more or less similar in any western nation with winner takes all/first past the post. These systems suck because they make change very difficult and severely shorten the levers people have on the political processes of their countries, but we live in the world we have, not the world we wish we had.
Not down voting you, in case it matters to ya, but largely disagree.
That’s what I have always found almost anywhere, and Lemmy is the first place online where I’ve run into the opposite - sincere, informed, motivated individuals who not only have a plan, but actively work towards it IRL. Sure, there’s plenty of do-nothing know-it-all types, I’ve almost certainly been one myself here more than once - but if you’re seeing that as the primary Lemmy thing, sounds like you just need to curate your Lemmy feed. Get away from the folks wanting to recreate Reddit, ya know? Pretty sure that’s where a lotta the “I know everything, but have done and will do nothing” personalities came from anyway.
I don’t find this to be true. There are real activist groups that meet and have actual plans to support parties, policies etc with door to door campaigning and more. You have none of that on Lemmy. Just people making guillotine memes.
I have not seen a singular person who that description fits my entire time being on Lemmy.
This seems really dismissive without any actionable examples.
I actually disagree tremendously, because something that has actually bothered me was seeing that reddit has more communities with people who actually plan protests, campaigns, user action, etc.
I imagine part of that is due to the much smaller lemmy user numbers, but I haven’t seen any actual events result from lemmy.
Interesting!
We really have very different experiences it seems. And honestly, I think that’s for the best! A big strength of federation-style tech.
Some responses:
I intentionally stopped short of pointing you toward the parts of Lemmy I was talking about. I don’t know you - if you’re curious, you’ll find em; but I don’t know you and they aren’t “my” spaces, I’m not going to inflict you on them just to make a point, know what I mean?
if you’re willing (feel free to tell me to fuck myself lol, given my statement above), where are you finding these “real activist groups”? I can’t say I’ve ever once seen the like online. To be fair, I tuned out of “social media” (the big platforms) more than 10 years ago and spent a considerable amount of that time jaded and uninvolved on that level.
I really can’t understand any defence of modern Reddit whatsoever (assuming you’re defending modern Reddit, you didn’t indicate otherwise). For a long time now it’s been hilariously controlled, are you talking about subreddits that have managed to fly under the radar or something?
completely agree that we got a whoooole lotta thoughtless meme’ing here. Pretty much comes with the territory though…
Oh, edit to add - I also haven’t seen IRL events organized on Lemmy, agree with you there. That’s not at all what I was saying, my bad - I meant that I run into folks who do IRL organizing, and happen to chime in about things online. The opposite of “online -> IRL” you’re describing.
Very cool of you with the measured response.
Thanks! It’s going great lol
That seems weirdly hostile
Groups looking to take action should be trying to be seen, not acting like a secret society. This alone means they’re almost certainly failing in their duties, if they exist at all.
Reddit often has location specific subreddits. Often times a cities subreddit for instance might organize a protest, rally, transport for voting, etc.
What a crazy logical leap this whole bit is. “You didn’t say something completely unrelated so therefore you must have opinion I made up”.
There is obviously a lot wrong with modern reddit, but that’s about management and ownership of the site, and therefore the enshitification and control.
What I was discussing is the people using said site. Two obviously separate concepts.
Not every bit of positive action is so brazen and offensive that it would violate TOS.
The signal to noise ratio is veeeery low here though. There are also a shit ton of weirdly pro russia/pro CCP noise with people who seem to trying to be impossible to talk to on purpose for some reason. Like they aren’t trying to actually effectively convince anyone of anything, just circle jerk in a weird cult like atmosphere where they just vaguely bust out stalinisms.
You don’t seem to really even be trying to read my comments charitably, a courtesy I’ve been extending to you. That’s not a discussion, it’s just trying to score points on someone.
You do you, but I’m all done.
What a weird bout of projection. Your weaponized civility was not well camoflauged at all. It was right out there in the open, especially given you started with “I’m not going to inflict you on them”
You baited out a comment with effort just to put out a comment with no effort accusing me of what you’re doing when literally all of your queries were answered. Troll behaviour.
You couldn’t be more wrong dude. I was sincerely interested in what you had to say. My “not going to inflict you on them” was entirely couched in an explanation most people would consider reasonable, and phrased in a way that I tried to make clear wasn’t an attack - it was only unfamiliarity. What I said is I don’t know you, not that I dislike you. And ya know what? Turns out I was right lol, you’re impossible to talk to!
You’re doing the thing right now. You’ve made up your mind completely about who I am and what I’m up to, and anything I say, you interpret through that lens.
I can’t help you with that. And sheesh, even speaking politely is interpreted by you as a trolling tactic? Get a fucking grip, you sound like an asshole and a moron. Why would anyone who disagrees with you bother to go through this? Besides which, you’re just wrong. You don’t have to go far through my comment history to find an instance of me strongly disagreeing with someone (re: recent comments by Obama). At the end of it, I realized they were right, I was the one misreading, and I apologized. But hey, maybe that’s another one of my sophisticated troll techniques!
I don’t hate you, I’m not mad at you, I don’t wish you ill will. I just don’t want to talk to you, and wish I hadn’t bothered.
Go ahead and spin this comment into whatever weird shit, too, should be entertaining.
Ah look, another big toxic comment not even passive aggressively hurling insults.
Not even worth the time to read it all. Apparently your “You do you, but I’m all done.” was indeed an obvious lie. (Double downvoting me with an alt is hillarious shit too)
Thank you for the explanation. Sorry it means you’re catching strays. But I do appreciate the well thought out response.
Thanks, and no worries. I’m used to that here. I just wish there was more sane and productive conversation about how to actually get the goals people who in theory agree with me politically accomplished.
Fuck this hits my soul. You got me shedding a literal tear.