I don’t truly understand things like this. Most DE’s are similar enough to Windows that anyone who’s spent a minute on a computer should be able to intuitively get to a web browser to surf the web. That’s what most people do. Word processing and the likes is tough since most are ingrained in Office, but something like (pukes in mouth) Google sheets is decently popular and good enough for most people.
If you give most someone a computer with a browser and auto updates, they’ll be able to do almost everything they are already doing on Windows with minimal thought.
There are exceptions, but those people suck at Windows already, so it’s a moot point. If you can’t find the start menu in Windows, it doesn’t matter what OS you’re using.
It’s always “one little thing”, and often an OS-local feature that many wouldn’t be aware of.
eg, You go to your grandma’s to help with her computer. She mostly uses her web browser to check on news. BUT, she has one specific home-network file operation she performs regularly, using an old network drive that got set up decades ago by who-knows.
That’s one tiny example, but there’s hundreds of others around, and not from tech nuts. Someone has one specific VPN app they must use, on their personal device, infrequently, for work. Someone runs one app that still mentions Windows 95 compatibility. Someone with learning disabilities is very very used to the pattern of logging in, so much so that they’re confused and ready to call IT when they don’t get a Ctrl+Alt+Delete prompt.
Thankfully, those are often exaggerations, and it’s good that most people’s use cases for niche stuff has migrated to web apps. You’re right that a lot of people really do only rely on their web browser. These days, even Edge is “sorta” available on Linux if someone is that dedicated to their list of bookmarks. Just don’t expect it’s always as simple as people not finding the start-menu-equivalent.
funny you should say it like that. I just recently I tried using Debian’s default GNOME desktop and thought I had corrupted the install somehow. I reinstalled the OS two more times because it kept dumping me into a nearly blank screen with no obvious buttons to click aside network/sound/power.
I’m used to LXDE, KDE, and Cinnamon, so this was completely foreign to me… and trying to find the web browser had me at a caveman level of confusion.
That’s weird, and sucks you had that experience. I should take a step back and say that I haven’t used a lot of different districts, including Debian. What I have experienced though, was either a star menu like button either in the bottom left, to left, or a floating dock.
I went full in on Arch when I made my permanent switch a couple of years back to make myself really learn more rather than just plug and play. That may be skewing my perspective some. However, I did throw mint on an old laptop that I have to my brother, and I was shocked that everything was exactly ready to go after install. Libre office, browser, other useful tools, updates, etc. I spent more time verifying things than configuring them and just passed it off.
I know that at least when I install kde in Arch, there are a few different build options from fully loaded to no extra apps. Perhaps with Debian there is a similar selection and you grabbed something stripped down rather than fully loaded? I’m not sure, but it’s good to hear this stuff to check my ignorance when discussing this with people.
That’s strange - vanilla gnome should start in overview mode and dash is populated with gnome apps by default. Aside from that, there’s a button in the upper left corner that goes into overview if you press it.
Maybe your install did get corrupted, because literally my grandma could figure it out. On the other hand, most mainstream distros ship with dash to dock and discoverability must be the reason.
It’s people with attitudes such as yours that give Linux a bad name. Your response to someone who’s just told you that they’re used to 3 different Linux DEs is that they must be a beginner and should use a beginner distro is the height of arrogance. The person you responded to is clearly not a beginner, and that’s the response you have for them when they share their totally valid experience? Shameful.
I do agree: Debian can be a bit tedious to set up and upgrade at times.
It would not be my choice if you had to install a Linux distribution for the first time with no help.
But, if you were able to set it up then you’re good, no reason to change now.
It’s not about ease of use. Remember Windows RT? It worked exactly like normal Windows and it still died because people didn’t understand what it is and were confused but the limitations. Making Linux as similar to Windows as possible is not a solution for the masses. It works for people that understand what they are doing or have someone who does at hand. Normal Windows user will just try to install Word and download exe files and be confused that they don’t work. If you want normal users to use Linux you need to make it clear that it’s something different, like OS X or Chrome OS does. You basically need a major OEM to create immutable Linux distro with clear branding and offer commercial support for it. Android for Desktop basically which will be very similar to Chrome OS.
Only Office has a UI very similar to Word. I generally prefer LibreOffice for its functionality, but Only Office has an easy layout for Word users to learn.
I don’t truly understand things like this. Most DE’s are similar enough to Windows that anyone who’s spent a minute on a computer should be able to intuitively get to a web browser to surf the web. That’s what most people do. Word processing and the likes is tough since most are ingrained in Office, but something like (pukes in mouth) Google sheets is decently popular and good enough for most people.
If you give most someone a computer with a browser and auto updates, they’ll be able to do almost everything they are already doing on Windows with minimal thought.
There are exceptions, but those people suck at Windows already, so it’s a moot point. If you can’t find the start menu in Windows, it doesn’t matter what OS you’re using.
It’s always “one little thing”, and often an OS-local feature that many wouldn’t be aware of.
eg, You go to your grandma’s to help with her computer. She mostly uses her web browser to check on news. BUT, she has one specific home-network file operation she performs regularly, using an old network drive that got set up decades ago by who-knows.
That’s one tiny example, but there’s hundreds of others around, and not from tech nuts. Someone has one specific VPN app they must use, on their personal device, infrequently, for work. Someone runs one app that still mentions Windows 95 compatibility. Someone with learning disabilities is very very used to the pattern of logging in, so much so that they’re confused and ready to call IT when they don’t get a Ctrl+Alt+Delete prompt.
Thankfully, those are often exaggerations, and it’s good that most people’s use cases for niche stuff has migrated to web apps. You’re right that a lot of people really do only rely on their web browser. These days, even Edge is “sorta” available on Linux if someone is that dedicated to their list of bookmarks. Just don’t expect it’s always as simple as people not finding the start-menu-equivalent.
funny you should say it like that. I just recently I tried using Debian’s default GNOME desktop and thought I had corrupted the install somehow. I reinstalled the OS two more times because it kept dumping me into a nearly blank screen with no obvious buttons to click aside network/sound/power.
I’m used to LXDE, KDE, and Cinnamon, so this was completely foreign to me… and trying to find the web browser had me at a caveman level of confusion.
That’s weird, and sucks you had that experience. I should take a step back and say that I haven’t used a lot of different districts, including Debian. What I have experienced though, was either a star menu like button either in the bottom left, to left, or a floating dock.
I went full in on Arch when I made my permanent switch a couple of years back to make myself really learn more rather than just plug and play. That may be skewing my perspective some. However, I did throw mint on an old laptop that I have to my brother, and I was shocked that everything was exactly ready to go after install. Libre office, browser, other useful tools, updates, etc. I spent more time verifying things than configuring them and just passed it off.
I know that at least when I install kde in Arch, there are a few different build options from fully loaded to no extra apps. Perhaps with Debian there is a similar selection and you grabbed something stripped down rather than fully loaded? I’m not sure, but it’s good to hear this stuff to check my ignorance when discussing this with people.
yeah, it was wild. I was trying to do set up some computer labs. Debian was the first suggestion in the guide:
After the second reinstall of Debian, I gave Fedora a try as it was the second to be suggested. Only to be greeted with this:
It took me forever to realize that dash-dot at the top left was not some stylization and was a button to show the overview.
Oof yea. I can see how that’s missed. Knowing it’s there, I kind of like the minimalist design. Not ideal for a new user.
That’s strange - vanilla gnome should start in overview mode and dash is populated with gnome apps by default. Aside from that, there’s a button in the upper left corner that goes into overview if you press it.
Maybe your install did get corrupted, because literally my grandma could figure it out. On the other hand, most mainstream distros ship with dash to dock and discoverability must be the reason.
Debian was not a great choise, it is not for beginners. I wonder why you chose that one.
If you want to try again, I recommend using a distribution that is recommended for beginners. For example Ubuntu.
It’s people with attitudes such as yours that give Linux a bad name. Your response to someone who’s just told you that they’re used to 3 different Linux DEs is that they must be a beginner and should use a beginner distro is the height of arrogance. The person you responded to is clearly not a beginner, and that’s the response you have for them when they share their totally valid experience? Shameful.
Then I misread it. He seemed like he expected a beginner-friendly experience.
If he is experienced, and use Debian as an example of how Linux is not beginner-friendly, then he must be trolling.
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I do agree: Debian can be a bit tedious to set up and upgrade at times. It would not be my choice if you had to install a Linux distribution for the first time with no help. But, if you were able to set it up then you’re good, no reason to change now.
It’s not about ease of use. Remember Windows RT? It worked exactly like normal Windows and it still died because people didn’t understand what it is and were confused but the limitations. Making Linux as similar to Windows as possible is not a solution for the masses. It works for people that understand what they are doing or have someone who does at hand. Normal Windows user will just try to install Word and download exe files and be confused that they don’t work. If you want normal users to use Linux you need to make it clear that it’s something different, like OS X or Chrome OS does. You basically need a major OEM to create immutable Linux distro with clear branding and offer commercial support for it. Android for Desktop basically which will be very similar to Chrome OS.
Only Office has a UI very similar to Word. I generally prefer LibreOffice for its functionality, but Only Office has an easy layout for Word users to learn.
Seconding Only Office. I had a few docs I needed to print in a hurry, and Libreoffice kept corrupting the fonts/text format. OnlyOffice worked clean.
The latest Libreoffice update has ribbon menus (optionally).
Still looks and feels nothing like microshit office. For this, onlyoffice definitely has the upper hand.