Seems like in a world where cops are allowed to shoot whoever resists that there is actually a pretty easy way to handle a bunch of ICE goons with like two days of training.
ICE and CBP personnel in Minneapolis outnumber state and local police in Minneapolis. It’s a bit more complicated than just “arrest ICE and shoot them if they resist.”
It would also be the literal start to the second american civil war. Everything so far has been leading up to it, but that would ignite the powder keg. Unless the state guard is ready to defend against a DoD invasion, lighting the keg in an official capacity is inadvisable. Maga is drooling at the mouth for public executions.
The longer we can delay full-on civil war, the better. tRump & co want things to accelerate as fast as possible. Don’t give them what they want.
And before you say “we’re already at war,” this is not what war looks like. Not even close. Don’t exaggerate, or else you might learn all too soon what a real war looks like.
Oh, and which one do you think is more interested in fighting in the streets of Minnesota? The actual people who live there and swore to protect the people of that state, or a bunch of Jan 6 goons who had 40 minutes of training and were flipping burgers last week?
Your formulation orients the answer as if it were obvious, but Jan 6 goons did prove on Jan 6 that they were very interested in fighting. Not necessarily competently, but at least enthusiastically.
Given how quickly they bitched out after what’s her face took a round I don’t think they were interested in fighting pillage, rape, and kill sure but actually fight? They showed their cowardice.
Right. The point I am making is that they are a substantially less effective fighting force than actual trained law enforcement officers AND are far less interested in actually doing it.
That doesn’t really matter, because in order to chase ICE out of Minnesota you would need to present a forceful deterrent, and that’s numerically unfeasible when you have less personnel and a smaller budget.
ICE/CBP could have 30 squads of 100 goons roaming around different parts of Minneapolis. Even if state and local agencies operated on an “all hands on deck” basis (which is untenable over a span of days or weeks), at most they would be able to have 26 groups of 100 personnel, or 30 groups of 86 personnel. Either way, it’s not really the show of force that would be required for what you’re asking. Especially when they’re at a material disadvantage when it comes to hardware.
Especially if DHS decides to send in reinforcements…
ICE is already struggling to find personnel to deploy to this, you really think they keep showing up if they start getting arrested? They don’t HAVE reinforcements.
Remember: These jobs suck. The only people doing this are a handful of true believers that actually believe they are achieving something and people with no better options. There is not an infinite pool of people available to do this. When the job gets harder, riskier, or just less pleasant, that pool gets smaller.
I’m operating on the fact that they have over 3000 personnel in Minneapolis alone.
And you’re operating on the assumption that they couldn’t just move more personnel there to increase their numbers if the less than 3000 state and local law enforcement personnel in Minneapolis somehow managed to outmaneuver the DHS agents that are already there…
You think there is an infinite pool of people who want to be ICE agents? The people of Minnesota outnumber ICE agents on every corner of the city WITHOUT their law enforcement agencies showing up. You are dreaming if you think 3000 inbred morons can capture an America city, let alone an entire state.
Yes, they want to destroy the civic order, and no matter how much damage they do to it, we can’t let their destruction become total. Because as soon as we stop holding together the fabric of society, all is lost.
No matter how hopeless it gets, we must refuse to give into lawlessness and chaos. That doesn’t mean we should tolerate intolerance or lawlessness, but it means we should insist, above all, on civility and maintaining pro-sociality.
We mustn’t let hatred infect our minds, because if we do, we cannot present a unified front. The resistance would tear itself apart with infighting. There are already many agents attempting to sow such division a discord, posing as “leftists” and advocating for chaos and destruction. We mustn’t let them win.
Seems like in a world where cops are allowed to shoot whoever resists that there is actually a pretty easy way to handle a bunch of ICE goons with like two days of training.
ICE and CBP personnel in Minneapolis outnumber state and local police in Minneapolis. It’s a bit more complicated than just “arrest ICE and shoot them if they resist.”
It would also be the literal start to the second american civil war. Everything so far has been leading up to it, but that would ignite the powder keg. Unless the state guard is ready to defend against a DoD invasion, lighting the keg in an official capacity is inadvisable. Maga is drooling at the mouth for public executions.
The longer we can delay full-on civil war, the better. tRump & co want things to accelerate as fast as possible. Don’t give them what they want.
And before you say “we’re already at war,” this is not what war looks like. Not even close. Don’t exaggerate, or else you might learn all too soon what a real war looks like.
Oh, and which one do you think is more interested in fighting in the streets of Minnesota? The actual people who live there and swore to protect the people of that state, or a bunch of Jan 6 goons who had 40 minutes of training and were flipping burgers last week?
Your formulation orients the answer as if it were obvious, but Jan 6 goons did prove on Jan 6 that they were very interested in fighting. Not necessarily competently, but at least enthusiastically.
Given how quickly they bitched out after what’s her face took a round I don’t think they were interested in fighting pillage, rape, and kill sure but actually fight? They showed their cowardice.
Right. The point I am making is that they are a substantially less effective fighting force than actual trained law enforcement officers AND are far less interested in actually doing it.
That doesn’t really matter, because in order to chase ICE out of Minnesota you would need to present a forceful deterrent, and that’s numerically unfeasible when you have less personnel and a smaller budget.
ICE/CBP could have 30 squads of 100 goons roaming around different parts of Minneapolis. Even if state and local agencies operated on an “all hands on deck” basis (which is untenable over a span of days or weeks), at most they would be able to have 26 groups of 100 personnel, or 30 groups of 86 personnel. Either way, it’s not really the show of force that would be required for what you’re asking. Especially when they’re at a material disadvantage when it comes to hardware.
Especially if DHS decides to send in reinforcements…
ICE is already struggling to find personnel to deploy to this, you really think they keep showing up if they start getting arrested? They don’t HAVE reinforcements.
Remember: These jobs suck. The only people doing this are a handful of true believers that actually believe they are achieving something and people with no better options. There is not an infinite pool of people available to do this. When the job gets harder, riskier, or just less pleasant, that pool gets smaller.
That “if they start getting arrested” part is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
How are you going to start arresting people who have you outnumbered, out-armored, and out-armed?
Some people lack all understanding of combat logistics, and it shows.
It sure does. You seem to be operating under the assumption that the entirety of ICE is standing there on the street of Minneapolis. That’s weird.
I’m operating on the fact that they have over 3000 personnel in Minneapolis alone.
And you’re operating on the assumption that they couldn’t just move more personnel there to increase their numbers if the less than 3000 state and local law enforcement personnel in Minneapolis somehow managed to outmaneuver the DHS agents that are already there…
You think there is an infinite pool of people who want to be ICE agents? The people of Minnesota outnumber ICE agents on every corner of the city WITHOUT their law enforcement agencies showing up. You are dreaming if you think 3000 inbred morons can capture an America city, let alone an entire state.
Fascists <3 violence and hate elections and we can’t let them win
Yes, they want to destroy the civic order, and no matter how much damage they do to it, we can’t let their destruction become total. Because as soon as we stop holding together the fabric of society, all is lost.
No matter how hopeless it gets, we must refuse to give into lawlessness and chaos. That doesn’t mean we should tolerate intolerance or lawlessness, but it means we should insist, above all, on civility and maintaining pro-sociality.
We mustn’t let hatred infect our minds, because if we do, we cannot present a unified front. The resistance would tear itself apart with infighting. There are already many agents attempting to sow such division a discord, posing as “leftists” and advocating for chaos and destruction. We mustn’t let them win.