So I can roll up to the McDonalds drive-thru, ask for a quarter-pounder, and they’ll accept a chunk of gold as payment?

You can get a whore to do that for you, if you’re so committed. I didn’t say you can use it for literally any transaction. I said for literally anything. And I dare you you to give me gold and challenge me for a thing I can’t get, if it isn’t something like a sample of small pox.

Or do I need to exchange it first?

Not like Bitcoin, no.

To be clear, I use Bitcoin for legal transactions (not exchanges) somewhat regularly. Would actually be extremely cumbersome to send boosts using gold, funny enough. Probably why people don’t do it.

To purchase what, exactly? Or to buy and sell Bitcoin? Because unless you’re illiterate, you should understand that was excluded.

Weird how you keep avoiding answering me, almost as if you were a pathetic coward in avoidance. Almost like, eh?

I’ve asked you what else could there be? What use can it be for people? And the only thing you came up with is “a store of value”. Meaning you’re investing in something that is being actively used as currency, despite you not having a single use for that currency, because the market which utilises that currency is so strong, it makes investing (ie “storing value with the expectation it’s gonna grow”) in a currency profitable.

Like I said from the start, the drug trade created the value which made Bitcoin a worthwhile investment. That’s what created the value; a market valued in TRILLIONS.

Remember that? How the value is in the TRILLIONS? Or are you just gonna pretend all the data I showed — from fucking Europol and not some niche independent propaganda rags — doesn’t exist?

Ps edit funny how you don’t contravene the definition of “exponential” now that we checked it, isn’t it?

The value of Bitcoin has not increased exponentially. You should look up that word.

Or maybe you should?

“of an increase) becoming more and more rapid”

I can roll up to the McDonalds drive-thru, ask for a quarter-pounder, and they’ll accept a chunk of gold as payment?

Like with Bitcoin?

I’m aware you’re unaware of how black markets work, that’s probably clear for anyone getting this far into the thread, but you can use it as currency, and every single small town will have at least a single gold trader, who will “store value” for you.

In what way?

In the way that countries on the gold standard, which included he US until about 50 years ago, had a system in which technically you were allowed to go any bank and demand your moneys worth in gold. Technically. But everyone doing that causes a bank run.

Which would also happen if there was some massive need about computer tech that could somehow magically trace all bitcoin transactions. And I do mean magically, because right now it trusts maths. And unless that changes, there’s prolly not gonna be a bank run on bitcoin.

I’ve asked you what else could there be? What use can it be for people? And the only thing you came up with is “a store of value”. Meaning you’re investing in something that is being actively used as currency, despite you not having a single use for that currency, because the market which utilises that currency is so strong, it makes investing (ie “storing value with the expectation it’s gonna grow”) in a currency profitable.

Like I said from the start, the drug trade created the value which made Bitcoin a worthwhile investment. That’s what created the value; a market valued in TRILLIONS.

Remember that? How the value is in the TRILLIONS? Or are you just gonna pretend all the data I showed — from fucking Europol and not some niche independent propaganda rags — doesn’t exist?

Just like Bitcoin.

But the value of gold hasn’t increased exponentially, unlike Bitcoin.

Any currency needs to be somehow limited for it not suffer hyperinflation. That’s just a basic necessity for anything valuable. With Fiat currency, it’s artifical limiting, which makes it highly unstable, unlike the gold standard. I wouldn’t be surprised if the US saw Post WWI Germany levels of inflation in the next few years, because the US is no longer on the gold standard, the US is making enemies of all and even the petro-dollar is faltering.

What do you purchase with chunks of gold?

Literally anything.

There’s not a city in the world you can’t go to with a huge bag of properly stamped gold and live as merry as you want.

Your whole “gold isn’t used as direct currency anymore” is a ridiculous fucking strawman, because the money represents gold, as per the gold standard. Bitcoin barely represents money, having very limited cash out points, let alone actually being backed up by anything physical.

Doesn’t matter how much of a tantrum you have. Practically all transactions being done in bitcoin is illegal trade. Investing in bitcoin isn’n a transaction with bitcoin. It’s just trading in bitcoin.

English isn’t your native language, I take it?

No, not exactly like gold.

Gold was backed up as value because it was established as rare and valuable several thousand of years ago, and it’s remained equally rare.

Bitcoin has significantly increased in value because the trade it’s being uses for has increased.

The first time I bought drugs with Bitcoin I had several hundreds. Then I bought them last time when they were around 1e a piece. Then despite not buying any more, it kept increasing in value so much I got several drug orders out of after spending about 115 out of it.

People noticed the huge influx in people buying Bitcoin. As traders do, they pay attention to trends. But people weren’t buying it as “store of value”, ducking LOL. They were buying bitcoin to easily and anonymously order drugs.

And that business is worth (this is the dozenth time I’m repeating this and you’re ignoring it, coward) literally TRILLIONS.

Which is why it kept growing in value, which is it attracted investment.

But I ask you, for the UMPTEENTH TIME:

#WHAT ELSE DO YOU PURCHASE WITH BITCOIN THAN ILLEGAL THINGS?

As does Bitcoin. Maybe you just didn’t know that. There is and can only ever be a fixed amount of Bitcoin. You might even be able to eventually travel to other planets and discover more gold there, but you can never discover more Bitcoin.

Yeah but the value increasing comes because of the rarity. That’s why bitcoin is now 83 000 more valuable than it was a mere 10 years ago when I had it.

If the value of gold had changed by 83 000 times, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. (The world would have ended, one way or another.)

Tens of thousands out of roughly how many total?

Of all the transactions? What else would it be used for? You know, the question I’m 4 now having to pretend to ask again, because you keep avoiding, because you know you the answer will prove me right?

Correct again. You are absolutely not.

Correct again, like I’ve been the whole time, UNLIKE you…?

how it became popular is completely irrelevant.

You’d just like to avoid it, because it’s central to this.

Meme coins come and go, because they’re unreliable. They’re unreliable, because there’s nothing actually backing them up, much like fiat currency.

However, gold has. Because gold is naturally rare. There’s a reason there’s a thing called the gold standard.

Because currency being backed against something real makes it more stable.

Much like Bitcoin relying on criminal transactions makes it reliable.

So again, you’re completely delusional to think there’s other transactions in Bitcoin. Name ONE.

I can and have shown you data from which you can infer that during this discussion of ours, tens of thousands of illegal transactions have taken place using Bitcoin, but you can’t even NAME a thing you’d use Bitcoin on.

You’ve still not understood this isn’t a debate. I’m not arguing you.

If you set aside purchasing or selling bitcoins, then yeah, that is more likely true than not.

I’ve asked you what else could there be? What use can it be for people? And the only thing you came up with is “a store of value”. Meaning you’re investing in something that is being actively used as currency, despite you not having a single use for that currency, because the market which utilises that currency is so strong, it makes investing (ie “storing value with the expectation it’s gonna grow”) in a currency profitable.

Like I said from the start, the drug trade created the value which made Bitcoin a worthwhile investment. That’s what created the value; a market valued in TRILLIONS.

Remember that? How the value is in the TRILLIONS? Or are you just gonna pretend all the data I showed — from fucking Europol and not some niche independent propaganda rags — doesn’t exist?

So we agree, it’s a store of value.

Much in the same way that any blunt object is a hammer? Yeah, sure. But if you go around calling wrenches “hammers”, just because you can hammer things with them, people are gonna look at you as if you were… eh… “special.”

Was in reference to you bringing up pump and dump memecoins. That’s why I quoted that part…

Those are still a marginal proportion of the trade. A hundred million is 0.01% of a trillion, as I’m sure you weren’t aware. Some meme coins being pumped and dumped IS the >0.01% I was talking about.

That’s not how that works, and you know that. I also never said you were wrong about anything except Bitcoin not being a store of value, which you agree that it is. So not sure what you’re even looking for…

Yes, it is, because you refuse to acknowledge any data or any information we can infer from the data. Oh right, sorry, you don’t understand the word. It means deduce or conclude (something) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.

No you haven’t.

Yes, I have.

Then present it.

I already have, and you’ve the whole internet to research data or information supporting your delusions. Which you don’t have and NEVER WILL. You know, because they’re delusions.

Only that it’s propped up by illegal activity.

Well yes. That’s the point. You can bank in anything that you can rely on, and you can rely on drug markets making money. “A store of value” is nothing but an investment. And the only reason it became actually reliable and profitable to invest in Bitcoin is because of the drug markets.

You’re pretending like you can’t infer things. Like people can’t infer things. Do you know what that word means?

Again, we’re talking exclusively about Bitcoin.

And had you bothered to read the studies, you’d notice the specify they do as well.

I can face reality just fine, you just can’t seem to prove your claim.

Well not to a person who can’t face reality, no. Obviously since you can’t face reality, you’ll decry anything as “not sufficient evidence”, because your ego is just too weak for you to ever admit to having been wrong.

Show me proof that I’m wrong. Oh, wait, you can’t, because I’m right and I’ve proved that and if you research the subject you’ll find nothing but data agreeing with me and disagreeing with you.

You ve literally no proof for yourself delusions about it being a “store for value”, but I’ve showered you with europol and other statistics showing that TRILLIONS are being used in criminal enterprises.

Do you know how large a number a trillion is?

Just because there are some barely valuable pump and dump meme coins doesn’t make my original assertion any lesser correct. Having a few hundred million worth is nothing compared to the TRILLIONS in drug money.

And like I said, it’s inherently impossible to quantify a BLACK MARKET, so the data we have is only showing a miniscule proportion of the actual illegal trades and even the best estimates are shown to be extremely conservative.

You just can’t face reality.

https://www.drugpolicyfacts.org/node/4383

"Another online survey, based on a convenience sample of more than 100,000 participants in 35 countries worldwide, suggested that the proportion of Internet-using drug consumers who had purchased drugs on the dark web in the previous 12 months had more than doubled between 2014 and 2022, from 4.7 to 10.8 per cent.19 Although plausible, these findings should be interpreted with caution, because they are not based on representative global samples but on convenience samples that are characterized by an overrepresentation of Internet users in Europe, the Americas and Oceania.

Overlap that with the value of bitcoin. When was it’s sharpest rise again?

Oh my. Looks like reality keeps differing with your delusions, mister “I-won’t-accept-being-wrong-no-no-no”

You ve literally no proof for yourself delusions about it being a “store for value”, but I’ve showered you with europol and other statistics showing that TRILLIONS are being used in criminal enterprises.

Do you know how large a number a trillion is?

Just because there are some barely valuable pump and dump meme coins doesn’t make my original assertion any lesser correct. Having a few hundred million worth is nothing compared to the TRILLIONS in drug money.

And like I said, it’s inherently impossible to quantify a BLACK MARKET, so the data we have is only showing a miniscule proportion of the actual illegal trades and even the best estimates are shown to be extremely conservative.

You just can’t face reality.

https://www.drugpolicyfacts.org/node/4383

"Another online survey, based on a convenience sample of more than 100,000 participants in 35 countries worldwide, suggested that the proportion of Internet-using drug consumers who had purchased drugs on the dark web in the previous 12 months had more than doubled between 2014 and 2022, from 4.7 to 10.8 per cent.19 Although plausible, these findings should be interpreted with caution, because they are not based on representative global samples but on convenience samples that are characterized by an overrepresentation of Internet users in Europe, the Americas and Oceania.

Overlap that with the value of bitcoin. When was it’s sharpest rise again?

Oh my. Looks like reality keeps differing with your delusions, mister “I-won’t-accept-being-wrong-no-no-no”

“It’s used as a store of value.”

No-one agrees.

The “investing” in cryptos is a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny, but vocal internet population.

The drug trade however, is literally global and like a third of the entire world take part in it in one way or another. Usually by being the consumers of drugs or by supporting the trade indirectly.

Like we’ve stats that about 1% of the global population has an actual drug dependency. But if we’re talking just casual use randomly,

It’s right there, black-on-white, just the synthetic drug trade is in the trillions.

It doesn’t matter what you think, if you use Bitcoin as a “store of value”, you’re indirectly supporting drug cartels because of your delusions and willfull ignorance.

Secondly, like I already said, it’s irrelevant. Bitcoin is for storing value.

Like I said, this isn’t a debate. It’s just you refusing reality.

Those studied specify bitcoin, but they talk about it as the tech it is. Some memecoins have stock sure, but the most stable and valuable is bitcoin. Why? Because most of it is being actively used for criminal enterprises.

There wouldn’t be any value in bitcoin without drug markets. That’s the point. The only reason some wannabe 20’s think it’s to “store value” is because they can’t afford any of the things which actual investors invest in.

You demand proof from me, yet you don’t even offer a rationale to your delusions. Quite hypocritical, no?

I’d say it’s closer to 99.9%, and that’s a conservative estimate, in line with data. Where’s yours?

Like some whiny kid said a few comments ago: “source?”

No, based on actual data available.

We only have data for busted markets, which is only a miniscule proportion of the trade being done, yet it still far outweighs any transactions used for legal purposes. Even when stores like growstores accept bitcoin and growers sometimes use their profits (made illegally, from several illegal transactions) to do one transaction which is for legal grow shit. The amount they’ll make off that gear will be far greater than the it’s cost.

This isn’t a debate. This is you just refusing to accept reality.

https://syntheticdrugs.unodc.org/syntheticdrugs/en/cybercrime/onlinetrafficking/payment/index.html

Cryptocurrency emerged in 2008 with the Bitcoin whitepaper as a scientific experiment. In less than ten years, it had become a part of the global financial system with the capitalization of trillions of dollars. To understand more about how cryptocurrencies are used, please see the video below.

https://www.europol.europa.eu/cms/sites/default/files/documents/Europol Spotlight - Cryptocurrencies - Tracing the evolution of criminal finances.pdf

The criminal use of cryptocurrency is no longer primarily confined to cybercrime activities, but now relates to all types of crime that require the transmission of monetary value. However, the scale and share of the illicit use of cryptocurrencies as part of criminal activities is difficult to estimate

It’s impossible to have specific numbers of a black market, in case you want something even more specific, but despite not being able to pin down specific numbers, it’s obvious.

But it’s not.

It’s an actively used currency. Very actively. There’s probably been thousands of transactions in the time we’ve had this chat.

It’s just that pretty much every single one of those is for drugs or other illegal services, mostly drugs. (I say “pretty much everyone” because there’s the offchance that someone has actually used one of those niche stores which accept bitcoin).

So I’ve given you plenty of proof.

I’ve bought a ton of drugs with cash. Is cash mostly used for illegal shit?

What a shit strawman. The illegal drug trade figuring out it could use tor and bitcoin is what made cryptos popular.

No-one knew shit about them before that. The blockchain was invented in the 90’s.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_(marketplace)

Between February 2011 and July 2013, the site facilitated sales amounting to 9,519,664 bitcoins

While nowadays places do accept bitcoin and it could also be used as a every niche currency, in practice, there is no use for it, except purchasing illegal goods and services.

Because if you actually need something that isn’t illegal, why the fuck would you use bitcoin? Because first off, you’d have to find someone who agrees to accept it. Are there any supermarkets where you live which accept bitcoin? Any stores which accept it, period? Perhaps the local headshop/vapestore/other such place run by some weed-worshipping 20-year old might, but seeing how slow it is, that’s doubtful either. People take donations on sites in Bitcoin.

What use does Bitcoin actually have, except for illegal shit?

It’s downright obtuse pretending otherwise. When Bitcoin came out in 2009, it had no users or use cases. Then 2011 Silk Road opens and less than three years later there are official inquiries from states like UK into cryptos, because it started the crypto boom and made Bitcoin actually valuable, because it’s used to facilitate drug deals, which are worth actual money.

So because it has a base value of the trading going on in the marketplaces, investors started just buying it because it was a very good investment. But people don’t buy it to use as currency — unless they plan on buying something illegal.

Source for what? For my personal experiences? For me having purchased drugs?

Or the amount of marketplaces, interactions in the marketplaces, and their values?

We can’t quantify the size of the illegal drug trade, but it’s in the hundreds of billions, if not trillions.

Hell, if only any of those marketplaces were open anymore, I’d have had probably now worth thousands in Bitcoin because a portion of them remained after my shopping. I didn’t have a local Bitcoin wallet, the stores had wallets you’d transfer into.

But yeah they switch so often, after either cutting and running or being caught.

But yeah, that’s what made Bitcoin a bit more mainstream, but the value radically shot up once people began seeing it as something worth investing in, since the value was growing relatively fast even without there being investors.

I don’t know what you’re asking a source for, exactly.

With a world GDP of US$78 trillion in the same year, the illegal drug trade may be estimated as nearly 1% of total global trade.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade

And those are honestly very conservative (and bad) guesses. Of course it’s much larger. You can see if you google it, none of the guesses are even similar to each other, lol.

Also, remember there’s a hugely popular show called “how to sell drugs online - fast” or smth. It’s just everywhere. But people pretend it isn’t. It’s fascinating to me, the willfull ignorance.

We have to legalise all drugs to actually get them under regulation.

You know the story about the Somali pirate stock market?

Think that, but times 1000.

Bitcoin is mostly used for illegal shit. Mostly drug trades, but anything else criminal as well. Want to buy guns, whores, even a hitman? Bitcoin.

The drug trade basically created the value for Bitcoin. And then the traders who already had lots of it when people began hyping Bitcoin became richer and richer.

Which annoys me a whole fucking ton, because at one point I had over 120 Bitcoin in my possession. Should’ve saved at least one and I wouldn’t be in this problem. Well, honestly, I would, because I’d have probably sold it at 500 or something.

Back when I had then they were worth 1e a piece. Ordered me some drugs, so I never bought them as an investment, just as currency.

Tldr Anyway yeah investing in Bitcoin is essentially funding drug cartels.

so I can now put my spicy pillows in the oven and tell the insurance men the internet told me to?

What fucking superintelligence?

I bought one of his books. Seemed a bit pretentious tbh, but the ideas weren’t all horrible.