Yeah that’s why most didn’t see it.

Idk personally I think both movies are good for totally different reasons. G’day to you

Including inflation. 1 dollar in 1982 is like 2.26 on 2010 money.

That still doesn’t really put it anywhere close. Plus it’s moreso about budget vs. return when we think of flops.

Idk it’s just extremely obvious that objectively speaking more people have seen Tron Legacy - a highly marketed high budget action blockbuster in IMAX 3D with state of the art visual effects, Olivia Wilde, Jeff Bridges and a soundtrack done by one of the most popular and recognizable musicians of all time. and especially of it’s time than Tron, a fairly goofy low budget sci-fi B-movie from the 1980s starring Jeff Bridges before he was really all that popular featuring Wendy Carlos noodling on a synth.

This is obviously not to say that one is bad, or that one is worse than the other, those are completely unrelated concepts.

I am primarily interested in discussing why Legacy didn’t appeal to general audiences as a way of understanding what makes a mass-appeal successful movie, because while Tron 1982 is also a good movie - it is very obvious why it didn’t appeal to general audiences.

We also see Disney gaining am unfathomable reach, with Tron Legacy releasing worldwide and in China, while Tron only released in 1000 or so American theaters. Is that a fair comparison? Enough to call me out as brazen and bat shit?

That’s like my entire point though. Obviously more people saw Tron Legacy, compared to Tron. But it’s not just the reach either, as we can also see with Tron Ares.

I didn’t call you “bat shit” (one word btw), I expressed respect for having such a wild take because I’m also a huge contrarian on Lemmy at times.

I mean Tron was Disney’s highest grossing live action film for five years.

Because Disney didn’t make many live action films during that time.

https://www.thegibsonreview.com/blog/disney-through-the-years-the-1980s-live-action-features

The only one I personally even know of from this list is “Honey, I shrunk the kids”.

literally a different production level with less interesting visuals, less unique, and

That’s subjective, I prefer the visuals of Legacy by a mile, and I think they are far more unique, they’re just also more generally appealing because they don’t look so low budget (even for the time Tron 1982 released).

All of these things should’ve made Legacy even more of a success though even if you were right.

I also don’t think it’s even remotely reasonable to compare the story in Tron 1982 which is about something like stealing a video game’s code - incomprehensible to general audiences - and Tron Legacy, which is a pretty nice simplistic hero’s journey about a guy meeting his long-lost dad. Very human, very mass appeal, very star warsy. Should’ve been a bigger hit and idk why it wasn’t.

If we could have some sort of comparison where people are exposed to the two and vote on it, you’d find the original has a lot of merit and is far more focused in scope than Legacy.

No it wouldn’t.

You are saying that based on your opinion of the original. You do understand that not everyone shares this opinion? In fact what facts and figures we have indicated the opposite.

Heck I’m quite sure Disney did their research for Ares and found that copying the Tron Legacy aesthetic tested better by focus groups, because y’know - it’s the one thing everyone says was great about that film.

You do also understand what mass-appeal means, yes? It’s not really about merit. Art doesn’t become popular because it has merit, if anything above the level of what can be considered a “professional” or “competent” production of anything, I would wager that merit has an exactly inverse correlation to popularity.

This is so unabashedly against the grain and out of touch with reality you have my respect just for having this opinion.

I mean, seriously? Tron? The original Tron? “One of the first things thought of when people mention [insert any word here]?”

I would wager the vast majority of people have no idea there even is an original before Tron Legacy, and I don’t even blame them, and out of the people who do know of it, I can imagine only like a few of those people actually watching it.

Original was definitely far more niche than Legacy in terms of reach and appeal, and the visuals in Legacy are definitely more appealing and impressive and oft-cited as such from critics and general audiences.

I have a soft spot for the original as much as anyone can, I watched it as a kid on a Blu-ray after seeing Legacy in the theaters and then my autistic ass would tell my parents that I can’t do homework because “I’m just an accounting program” and honestly I wish I could do that at work too.

Buuut not only is it fairly obvious that the Legacy sequel is more popular, but it’s also quite frankly a far better movie overall, even if it’s less unique.

That said I’ve never actually heard anyone claiming anything contrary to this, so def big props for saying something so outlandish so brazenly.

Edit for the record:

Tron (1982)

Budget: $17mln

Obviously not a lot of butts in seats, but it made it’s money back, almost doubled.

Tron Legacy (2010)

Budget: $170mln

$400mln is a lot more reach. On a budget of $170mln it has more than doubled it’s money back.

Doesn’t seem like a flop, does it? But it makes sense they’d think of it that way when you wonder what Disney probably expected by pumping even more money into merchandising, video games (even for the PC and PSP), a wholeass animated kids show, it’s not too surprising they still wound up disappointed.

Plus this was from a time when studios would make ever-more expensive blockbusters and expect insane returns on even a small degree of IP recognition alone and so pump everything in for that magical one big hit.

Then of course, we got:

Tron: Ares (2025)

Budget: $180mln, yes - somehow more than Legacy, despite that movie looking like an OG fat PS3 if it was a movie, and this movie looking like the Tron video game for the PS3.

Sufficed to say it made a tron of money. That areshole Leto must have some pretty big dirt on somebody to get this made.

What even would that be? Like a CeX in the UK?

Yes I like it too, I mean in terms of success

Cringe

The original was a flop, it just got a cult following because tech nerds felt recognized in a movie about ‘them’ and ‘computer stuff’ with delightful 80s cheese that appeals to that audience.

Why Legacy didn’t succeed though I honestly don’t know. I remember seeing it as a kid with my dad in the cinema, it was like the 2nd movie I ever saw in cinema and we both loved it, the ads for it were everywhere and it was pushed as the IMAX film to sell the format to the general audience, every TV played clips of it at the store to sell the FullHD television sets.

No clue why it didn’t catch on, I rewatched it recently as an adult and honestly it has the same general appeal of a simplistic hero’s journey in a unique and very visual sci-fi universe. It reminded me the most of a movie like Star Wars, and for a 2010 film, it felt as good as if it released 20-30 years prior, and even had a universe that hits at something bigger, just like Star wars, not to mention Daft Punk who were still fairly popular at the time because they still did stuff.

Yes free and open source models created for free (as in libre and free beer) based off academic research funded by taxpayer money are definitely totally “billion-dollar AI companies”.

Your astounding confident ignorance is only helping those billion dollar AI companies you (and I) hate so much.

Stop fucking thinking of technology as “products” and “apps” and start actually thinking. IP is property, and it benefits those who own property, and it’s the same owners of that property (e.g. YouTubers, yes even hbomberguy) that spoon-feed you this shit, and it’s only because they want a cut.

FOSS is the closest thing we have to functional productive communism right now, and AI is here to stay, and we should take it on just the same.

Fear of the unknown and the new only leads to losing to those who do not fear, if AI is to exist, it must serve everyone, and your irrationality isn’t helping anyone.

If anything - spreading fear about AI art as if it’s anything more than an advancement of digital tools that long already automated the realities of making art (like the ability to undo arguably did more lol).

It only makes you look crazy, and also literally pumps up the stock of Sam altman & co. because if you’re driven to such insanity by it, there must be something to it.

P.S. your strawman is weak as hell, watch this:

"You see now the proles are making art, what’s the world come to? What next - will the peasants demand they have shelter, food and water, too? For information to be free, available to everyone, and not just those who deserve it by birthright?

You know - us artists, the little guy, folks who by our very nature are meant to be gatekeepers of art from the unsightly hordes of the unwashed masses.

Us - people who grew up rich enough to not have to work a day in our lives, who don’t have to worry about only making as much money as possible to survive, us who have the financial freedom to pursue something risky like art. Without us in charge to lead society in our image, and with the proles collectivising to make the world for everyone, a disaster is sure to come."

Idk his render pipeline breakdown videos seem fairly in-depth. Is it just mumbo-jumbo? I saw some discussion where some devs seemed to acknowledge the perspective but say basically past 10 years of graphics make non-deferred render pipelines utterly unfeasible and thus MSAA, not to mention the issues that TAA “solves” like particularly fine geometry (see guitar strings in TLOUpt.2) or shimmering on stuff that can’t be optimized e.g. hair.

Frankly though I think in practice the difference between graphics in 2015 and 2025 is negligible compared to the difference between TAA (or DLAA/FSR/XeSS/FXAA/SMAA) and x4 MSAA. The only that comes even close is Path Tracing in CP2077.

I agree he seems like a sketchy af grifter, but I’ve not seen a single good rebuttal of his actual points, and even if he was a grifter, that doesn’t invalidate what he’s saying.

That Half-Life Alyx render in flatscreen with MSAA looks better than practically any game I’ve seen.

Lmao you people are deranged. “All AI art is soulless and you can always tell” but it’s almost always just a shitty image because artbros are equally capable of producing slop as AI, just like AI can be used for real art all the same and you will never know and have probably already enjoyed some.

Sincerely always and forever, the source: Google images. I could give a fuck who made it, it’s just on the internet.

Intellectual property isn’t real, and capitalists love that you think that it is.

So true

Ugh games of this era are gonna age like milk with this forced upscaling and blurry TAA smear shite.

More compression and upscaling… How about just better graphics? How about you make a console that can do path tracing that you can get going with a fairly cheap PC setup.

All these years and these consoles still run 720p30fps like the PS3, but it’s ok with some people because it’s using AI to be dishonest and not just lying like back in the good old days with fish AI.

Idk, I don’t agree. I think in many ways actually online is a lot less brainrot.

Online I can block ads. IRL I cannot.

Online I can block morons. IRL I cannot.

Online I can choose pretty freely what to do and when and with whom and why.

IRL depends a lot more on what’s available locally and transport options.

Online I can connect with people across the globe, massively increasing the likelihood of finding friends due to higher overall population meaning more people who are into the same stuff I am.

IRL I’m limited to the smallest fraction of a fraction of people who are coincidentally local and also happen to have things I have in common with, and id also need to meet them somehow, which is about negligible odds.

Online my options for research are practically unlimited, I can see and evaluate multiple perspectives and check the sources easily.

IRL not so, and for news I’m largely limited to propaganda from MSM billionaire outlets.

Online I am safe from physical violence and threats, I’m free to speak my mind and voice my beliefs, IRL - not so much.

I think the internet is good, actually, and if it hasn’t had a good impact on you, I’m sorry, but that’s a skill issue.

Yeah, true, I’m not racist and I think being in multicultural environments since childhood was basically what did it, international boarding school, city with big international population, etc.

Stop using anything with algorithmic feeds for a start. So no Instagram, Reddit, Facebook, TikTok, etc etc.

For YouTube - turn off watch history in your account settings. It turns off the home page. Bookmark the subscriptions page and use that and only that so you’re only watching channels you’re subscribed to. I also use ublock to turn off the comments and the suggested bar on the side. I’ve never used the app and I don’t watch videos on my phone.

You can also set an app timer for your Lemmy client, I’ve done it for Jerboa in the past and while it didn’t really work for me, it’s something that may work for you.

With local media that’s a really good idea you got going.

You do need to replace the stuff rather than leave a vacuum, so this would be a good time to pick up a new hobby or get back to an old one, something nice, chill and fairly passive so you don’t feel you’re too exhausted to do it after work, in the same way you’d scroll sm passively.

I may not agree on the whole divorcing from screens thing as IRL really is just a different type of brainrot IMO and an even more biased self selecting echochamber, but I do think divorcing from big tech is a good thing because fuck corpos and regardless I wish you luck!

I see people daily due to living in a city and it only makes me hate them more.

Not everyone has a car y’know. Actually I don’t even know anyone who does.

As long as he isn’t also sporting the Death in June merch

You do realize that countries outside the US exist, right? Because the answer is No. No, they do not do these things outside of United States of America - which is 1 country.

Yes, as weird as it seems to you - the world is not entirely in one country called United States and what applies to what you know of your country does not apply in the entire world.

Here in the UK even grandma does not mail in bill payments, nor do most places accept this, she does it via the app or the utility company website for Direct Debit, or she has someone do it for her via the app before she goes on to be racist on Facebook.

This is the same way for blue collar workers. They in-fact - must have debit cards because they must have bank accounts to even get paid via PAYE and IR35 and thus pay taxes. While there are jobs outside of that, the people who work those jobs will be paid into bank accounts, and cash in hand jobs mean via PayPal or Venmo or some such that all also require bank accounts and KYC.

Hell, you can’t even rent a place without showing them your bank statements, or straight up letting the letting agency login to your bank account via some third party data harvesting / “income analysis” tool so they can “confirm” your income and employment status. I had this exact thing demanded when I was looking for a place up and down the country just over half a year ago by every letting agency under the sun, from small to big, south to north.

Yes there are people without bank accounts, but it’s usually only because they’ve either:

a) Just arrived and have no permanent address which is required to set up a bank account, meaning they have to pay rent upfront for 6mo to a year to avoid checks to even get an address, which they can’t get because they can’t get a job which again - requires a bank account - trapping them in a cycle of poverty unless they have savings in a foreign bank account with which to pay upfront rent Or: b) Are destitute and homeless, again - without a permanent address, which is required for a bank account.

The same goes for smartphones. You’re not realistically gonna get a job without a smartphone.

Credit cards yes - most people do not use them, and their dominance as a default and even commonplace household usage as ‘deficit spending’ on Temu is most commonly a US phenomenon.

That’s because debit cards are the default in the rest of the world - credit cards are not. Since everyone has a bank account and smartphone, most people pay with Google Pay via NFC on their phone anyway IRL, and many people shop online, which is the use of a debit card - paying for things.

As opposed to credit cards, which are seen as borrowing. Not that many people are keen to borrow money or engage in any finance that could be seen as “gambling”, definitely least so the wagies, with the exception of some horse betting or memestocks or in the case of 100% brain use - a savings account at a bank or building society, all of which almost universally already require a bank account meaning a minimum of 2 apps.

I personally do have one but I’m in the minority.

You saying this interaction is pointless is very self-reporting, because you are essentially stating that you will not change your mind regardless of how many times and how much you are corrected.

It is an admission that your bizarre insistence that your experience is universal - as if you not knowing how things are in the rest of the world is some sort of attack on you - is in fact, terminal. I’m sorry for you.

I don’t claim to know how things work in America, I’ve heard American colleagues say crazy stuff about how everything is tied to your credit ratings, which isn’t the case here nearly as much, but I also don’t claim that everything i know about my country - the UK - applies to the rest of the world, because of course it doesn’t, I’m claiming that what you’re saying - what might be true in your country - the US - is a universal worldwide experience.

I’m not sure what you expected claiming this in this international discussion on this international community on this international website on this international internet.

Ah, thanks. Sorry for confusing the languages!