Fair enough. Have a good day friend.

I get it, but MacOS is UNIX which is arguably just as complex, and that shit is far from niche or obscure.

The main difference is that MacOS is unified in its construction and Linux is fractured by design. If Linux can put everything together in a seamless and unified way, even if it’s not seamless under the hood, then we’ll be a lot closer to big OEMs putting out systems with Linux pre-installed.

If OEM systems with Linux pre-installed start appearing on shelves next to Windows systems and Macs at best buy, then it’s actually possible it would happen. But the Linux community needs to do what they can to build, test, and deliver, some kind of front end that gives the end user that polished experience, that for anything that a user wants to do, there’s a knob to do that with which doesn’t require dropping into a config file or to the command line.

I’m not going to delude myself or anyone else, while a lot of this is easy to say, the challenges are immense, and some organizations have been trying to accomplish this for many many years. Linux has come a lot way, but it’s not quite where it needs to be yet, in order for it to happen.

I work in IT for businesses and the number of times I’ve had to debunk AI slop hallucinations as actual troubleshooting information is not zero.

“Yes, I can see the instructions say to check that checkbox, however, that checkbox does not exist” (screenshot of relevant control panel).

This is just evidence, to me, that business types are already relying on AI instead of doing any actual thought or research on any topic they don’t already have a deep understanding of, or are too lazy to bother with.

Consumers are not driving this change.

The worst part is that it’s an echo chamber of yes-men that seem to be pushing for it. The AI enthusiasts trying to sell their crap, convincing the middle managers that they need their AI crap, and them buying it and asking for more/better AI crap, and the cycle continues. At no point does any of the output of any AI system provide any unique insight, or value, to anyone. The rest of us are being dragged along for the ride, regardless of what we want.

Well, I didn’t lift it from anywhere. So, I guess there’s dozens of us?

I work in IT. IMO, the civilian population moving to Linux is inevitable. As Linux finds itself and good ways to do things that don’t require people to know bash, or customize options by manually editing config files, things will push that way.

IMO, it will happen, but not quite yet. We’re seeing the initial push of the privacy conscious and those that want to avoid becoming a product. It’s good, but we’re not there yet. We’re also seeing some pretty major players, most notably valve, pushing for consumer goods that are unashamedly Linux under the hood. This is, slowly but surely, pushing forward compatibility for apps running on Linux.

We probably won’t see any line of business apps adopting a Linux build any time soon, and business in general actually wants the majority of what Microsoft is pushing for… Along with government institutions (for their own needs), and more. I don’t see business moving towards Linux anytime soon… Not beyond it’s current role in server operations.

As stuff like steamOS get better and better, and find ways to solve problems in consumer friendly ways, that knowledge will feed back into existing Linux tools. We’ll get to a point where Linux will be as plug and play as Windows, and that’s when we actually have a good chance of migrating a lot of personal PCs to Linux.

The Battle for the workplace is still a long way out. Well after the Linux home PC is commonplace. People at the office will simply have more experience with Linux, and push for being able to use Linux at work and eventually that’s going to start to happen… Probably not in our lifetimes.

To me, it’s only a matter of time. Unless Linux undergoes a hostile takeover and unforeseen bullshit happens, it will happen.

Who says I’m upset?

You’re the one who is butthurt because you don’t think that valve did good enough by your standards.

The flaw in your comparison, especially with any wired controllers is that they basically didn’t have firmware. At all.

Meanwhile, the og steam controller didn’t even have an associated console.

So the comparison I’m going to draw from this, since people update their computers… Is that it’s a bit like asking Xbox 360 controllers to interoperate with the Xbox series x…

The controller gets left behind while the hardware it is supposed to attach to, morphs into something entirely different.

I don’t see PlayStation controller ports (from the og PlayStation era) on PS4s. So why are we bitching about steam controllers when Sony won’t continue to support the og PlayStation controllers on the PS4…

The fuck are we even talking about anymore?

Can you hear yourself?

You mean the one that was released in 2015, and they stopped selling in 2019, then continued to support for at least four more years?

That’s the one?

And we compare that to what? Can I get support on my Xbox 360 wireless controllers still? How about my dual shock controller for a PS3? Google surely still updates the stadia controller, right? They didn’t give up on it less than a year after the stadia service was taken down… Right?

With the exception of maybe 8bitdo or something, their support for that controller was extremely good, and the fact that they made it 10 years ago, and stopped selling it 6 years ago, but only stopped supporting it 2 years ago, that’s pretty good, IMO.

Exactly right. And this is driving my point. There are options. If you don’t like one option, try something else.

Pretty much every controller design has positives and negatives that change depending on who is using the controller. I enjoy the xbox one/series controllers for the most part, and they’re fairly reliable and my usual go to. I also have a dual shock somewhere that I don’t really use, and a stadia controller that was patched to work with anything, which gets more action than the dual shock, but not nearly as much as the Xbox controllers.

I usually play with kb/mouse, so controllers are already pretty rare in my gaming experience, but they make an appearance from time to time.

With these new steam controllers, I might see a good reason to use a controller more frequently… Especially if I can afford the $900+ that the steam machine will probably cost… They said it would be “competitively” priced in relation to PCs, not consoles. So I’m expecting $900+ right now. Time to start saving.

I would argue that, as long as valve gets it out the door, they support it. Index owners are still supported and that’s from a headset released in 2019. The oculus rift CV1 released in 2016 and it was killed around 2020 when oculus was purchased by Meta. Four years, and the headset is basically a paperweight for anyone who still owns one. A $600 USD paperweight.

Considering that the connection cable was the first thing to die and in 2020 meta stopped selling those cables, anyone I know who had one, including myself, either stopped using it, or was forced to stop when their cable inevitably broke.

There’s a dozen examples. The og steam controller, the steam link, and more recently the steam deck, which is still going strong.

Yes, they have issues getting ideas out the door, but when they get out the door, they’re supported for a good long while.

These don’t look like “we have an idea to build a thing” that will never make it to market… This looks like “we finally got a delivery date for these finished units and we’re excited about it”

I’m looking forward to it, no matter what. Valve has time and time again proven itself to be more consumer focused than other tech companies. More from them is good IMO.

That’s a big challenge, but a worthwhile one. The reason that Microsoft exploded in the DOS era was because it ran on everything that was “IBM compatible” aka x86. Meanwhile Apple was over there with a competitive product, but you could only run the software on their OS that ran in their hardware. People were able to get cheap third party x86 compatible computers and run MS-DOS (and later Windows), and they were not locked into a specific vendor doing top to bottom hardware/software support.

If they do this right, they’ll be the go to option for a lot of people who generally use their PC primarily for gaming.

As someone with hands on the larger side, small controllers suck for us too.

The point you should be focused on is having a diversity in controller options, not that any one controller is good/bad.

It is entirely subjective to say the controller is good. Your definition of good won’t be my definition of good. Your taste and opinion is just as valid as mine, and I don’t impose my preferences on you.

I don’t know how big that controller is, since no banana was provided for scale. It could be huge and unwieldy, or it could be very tiny. One size never fits all.

At the end of the day, if you don’t like it, don’t buy it, and/or don’t use it. This is +1 option in the controller space, and that kind of competition is good no matter what opinion you have.

Weird place to mention that. But thanks?

I’m not trying to defend anyone here, though it might seem like that, but I’m not sure why valve is lumped in with this, especially since that’s the steam logo.

Steam, as a platform, hasn’t released much of anything, ever. Valve has been sitting mostly on the sidelines since half-life 2 episode 2 and HL:Alyx.

Steam itself is just a marketplace.

I get that a lot of publishers on steam will fall into the categories of games that are the subject of the meme, but I have a hard time piling steam with the games that are published on it.

And yes, corporations are not our friends, and all billionaires are bad billionaires, eat the rich and all that… I’m just saying. There’s a lot of bigger, much worse, fish to fry than gaben, valve, and steam in this discussion. That could have been EA’s logo, or the Xbox logo (or ms game studios or whatever) or any number of massive publishers that are relevant here. Using the steam logo is lazy at best.

Yup. I agree. I was just checking to see if that was the case.

I was certainly hoping it was, but I wanted to see what other people’s experiences have been.

Thanks for the conversation.

See, that’s what I was thinking. I’ll have to do more research, but I would think all the overhead from Windows being Windows, would kind of diminish the gap between running it natively on Windows, and using proton or something so you can run it on Linux.

The overhead on both should be fairly similar, though with how Windows is, it wouldn’t surprise me if it was slower.

Okay, real talk.

I know there’s probably 100 videos on this, but I don’t have time to watch any of them right now…

How much performance is lost/gained from using Linux to play games via proton?

I’m certain any game with a native Linux version will work great, I’m mostly concerned with the ones that need some kind of emulation layer.

As an IT professional, it’s getting harder to find what I need from Google.

At the same time, it’s borderline impossible to find what I need from other search engines, most of the time, and it’s downright stupid to ask AI about it, because it will always give you an easy answer that doesn’t work using controls that don’t exist.

Yay?

Neat.

Thank you for your unsolicited opinion.

Idk, I’ve never tried to run 30 year old games on modern systems.

I’m just not that nostalgic.

And? How does this indicate the daily active player counts for the games supported and not supported?