Are there any a|ternatives to n8n?

Sounds like a problem with the hosting of lemmy.world. I think they’re using Hetzner. I don’t think Lemmy cares at all what IP you come from.

That’s the point of it. It’s satire of the horseshoe theory.

Comrades of all stripes, stethoscope and fish hook theorists, we stand united in hatred of the capitalist death cult. No downvotes!

🍿

I think you’re describing the horeseshoe theory:

I understand that feeling. If it’s strong enough to drive to using a different base I wouldn’t care much even if it’s more work. The staffing and funding is the real difficult part.

From technical perspective, other than perhaps the software license choice, there’s nothing in AOSP that I’m aware of (not the closed source parts) that’s driven by the oligarchy. I’ve been involved with AOSP at the OEM level for some ten years, some in the early 2010s and then since 2020. AOSP has been fairly well isolated from non-technical decisionmaking at Google, in part due to how many third parties heavily depend on it, and in part because of how pluggable the APIs are. The plugability allowed all anti-features so far to go into installable components that don’t need to be a part of the OS. I think this bullshit with the app “sideloading” changes is the first major change that has no technical basis whatsoever that I’m aware of and requires AOSP surgery to accomodate. There may be more to come from here on out.

I guess you could chalk up the lack of open source app development as part of the oligatchic shitfuckery. I guess it is, but the base apps really are separate from the OS and they’re a pretty small effort compared to the rest of the OS and frameworks.

Anyway. I’ll get this next Jolla phone to try out. Sailfish is an evolution of MeeGo which was the most promising Android alternative in the early 2010s. 😁

Sure but that no longer matters if you have say Igalia staff a 200-people team with EU funding to develop NOSP (Nondroid Open Source Project) a hard fork which no longer accepts any changes from Google. All the decisions happen without Google’s direction. Since that would be already compatible with hardware in the near term, the EU could mandate manufacturers who want to sell in the EU to ship phone variants based on NOSP.

The APIs and OS infrastructure that already exists in AOSP is enormous. I develop system software for AOSP, for a living. It’s been stagnant becauase the OS is basically complete. There’s no major gaps of any kind left. You don’t want the OS to move much unless there’s problems to solve or gaps to fill.

Username checks out.

It can run Android apps!

On the software front, our fastest way to independence is a state-funded software org to fork Android and begin development and maintenance full-time. Whether one goes with non-Android or Android OS, it always comes down to funding development. Starting with Android would likely be significantly cheaper since a lot of work has already been done. And if you fund its continued development away from Google, then Google isn’t a factor anymore. Make an independent app store, Play Services replacement, etc. As I said in another thread, the social infrastructure (people, labour) is more important than the exact technology used. If we have that, we can make a usable phone out of Android or Sailfish, or anything else. It’s a matter of doing the work.

Having independent software with PRC-hardware isn’t a bad compromise. Especially in the near term.

Yup. I opted for mininally computerized Whirlpool based on some of his stuff in 2020. Mainly because they’re simple and there’s plenty of parts and repair people who can fix them in Canada.

We really need an Android alternative with no involvement from American or Chinese companies.

This won’t occur without state intervention. The market has already decided to move design and production of phones and phone components to China (and Vietnam to some extent). In order for a European phone to be made, in Europe, the necessary supply chains need to be buit. But there’s no market for them as their output would be more expensive and the market already figured the maximum profit is in the China-Vietnam manufacturing mix. So the state would have to create these supply chains. Minerals, displays, diodes, MOSFETs, ICs, caps, PCBs and small cells. Once that’s in place, creating a European phone manufacturer becomes possible. That’s a decade long process that simpy won’t occur without deliberate and persistent state support. I think it should be done, however you may find a lot of opposition by free market fundamentalists, or interest groups that represent capital in other industries receiving state support.

Currently it’s in close proximity to the tip of Big Tech’s … production output pipe.

But the top 20% can still spend. That number is going to drop off a cliff when the stock market tumbles, and the spending with it.

If you look at the history of capitalism you could observe the stage where capitalism does put profits into R&D is temporary. Eventually capitalists reach enough power that lets them generate profts without significant reinvestment and instead spend them on luxury goods. Happened in the late 19th/early 20th century. It’s happening now as well. In-between that there was a massive state intervention that took significant economic power from capitalist class and put it into the state. The period when capitalism worked well for the majority was a deviation from the mean. Relevant.

Chromium was created by the KDE community which needed HTML rendering in… the 90s? Then it was taken up by MS competitors who wanted to make a rival of Internet Explorer and they “created” WebKit. Nokia, Apple, BlackBerry, later Google and many others contributed to WebKit which became Safari and eventually Chrome. At one point Google broke off from that codebase to create Blink.

I’ll give you that you’ve got a decent narrative and I wouldn’t have objected much if Google was the “Don’t be evil” company it used to be in the late 2000s and early 2010s. Which is also when they acquired Danger and released their src as Android. We’re not in that world anymore. I don’t give a flying fuck where the innovation is because I can rely on GCC being here 50 years from now, when the current corporate players be long gone.

Again, I really wish we lived in 2015 when people (and I) trusted Google enough to make it trivial for me to advocate for their projects and products.

For sure. I’m considering corpo software as a liability by definition.

Pre-ordered. Time to put our money where our mouth is.

Kinda. But also kinda not. The cost of getting a phone made has decreased and there are many, many manufacturers who can make one for you these days. From that perspective, if you have small niche where people are alright with paying a bit of a premium, it may in fact be easier to make a phone for them than say in 2012.

The total device cost will be 499 EUR or 599~699 EUR as the “normal” price with the voucher deducting from the phone’s cost if/when available.

This price for a low volume device would have been completely unachievable in 2012.