What’s stopping you from turning updates off?

Bazzite contributor here, there’s no reason to care about this. This term just confuses people you can safely ignore it.

The Bazzite team doesn’t control the wikipedia page, just the official documentation. Someone made up the term “immutable design”, that’s not a thing it’s just a container. There’s no need to confuse people just call it bazzite or a container. Atomic is a fedora brand name, it’s not a thing to classify things under.

As you can see from the comments in the thread all this does is confuse people.

Source: I work on bazzite

lol you’re confusing me, bazzite isn’t immutable. Do you mean to say “Bazzite is growing for other reasons?”

Convince me to switch!

Why? If your computer is working fine there’s no reason to mess with it. bootc images are for people who do not want to use whatever you mean by ‘normal’ Fedora.

I mean yeah sure, if you’re not a developer you can just use it like a chromebook. :D

?

Bluefin/Aurora adoption takes a bit longer because developers have to adjust their workflows, and there’s still this odd stigma around atomics.

Bluefin maintainer here, our target audience are container people, not people who want to adjust their workflows. The people we cater to don’t have an opinion on “atomics” because no one’s ever heard of that term. They’ve heard of docker or podman though.

That’s made up, GIMP is like 90MB you can see it listed on the website and confirm it by installing it: https://flathub.org/apps/org.gimp.GIMP

But devcontainers are kind of pushed as the way you “should” be writing code on Bluefin and it’s…. not great.

Both podman and docker are on the image, you could just use containers normally without using devcontainers if you want.

I cannot reconcile

It’s like a saving throw in a video game, most times you can make it, but every once in a while you don’t lol.

I don’t understand the answer though.

The answer is if you’re depending on software that is closed and out of your control (aka. you have an Nvidia card) then you should have support expectations around that hardware and linux.

There are no GTS ISOs because we don’t have a reliable way to make ISOs (the ones we have now are workarounds) but that should be finished soon.

If you depend on third party modules you’ll end up with third party maintenance - we didn’t purposely decide to break this we don’t work at Nvidia.

Do an update, this was an error due to moving over to dnf5.

Heya! I’m one of the ublue maintainers. I run the Project Pavilion at KubeCon, any chance you’re going? I love to talk about this stuff in real life! Our project is based on bootc, which is going into sandbox into the CNCF, so there’s lots of stuff to talk about!

Bluefin has even less. I consider this near-zero documentation.

What do you feel is missing from the documentation, can you be specific? You’re examples are too generalized to be actionable.

Awesome, glad it’s working for you!

How would you even measure how many are turning away?

How would you recommend anyone measure this? So far the answer has been things like nvidia drivers and “anti-cheat doesn’t work”, which are things out of our control.

unwilling to cater to those who aren’t

If you don’t understand what something is, it may be that you are not the target audience!

Your description as it is now targets tech experts, rather than laypeople

Laypeople don’t install operating systems.

You feel justified in being technically correct, while I place more value on accessible descriptions for less technical (prospective) users.

Less technical users don’t care and go download the ISO, they don’t need to care about any of this.

I would say it is the methodology. To distill it a bit more in the context of bazzite and universal blue:

• Focus on automation (we do this via gitops) - everything is driven by git
• Declarative definitions: all the components of the base images (the kernel, base packages, etc. are all defined up front), and then the custom images (bazzite) do the same thing on top of that. That makes it easier for someone else to start with a small thing and “make my own bazzite” either from scratch, off of a base image, or if you want to just FROM bazzite you can start from there.
• Iterate fast: basically be able to change anything in the OS and rebuild on the spot locally as fast as possible.
• Everything is an OCI artifact

Dude, thank you for this. IMO reducing that down to simply “cloud native” is doing a disservice to how absolutely cool that methodology is.

The methodology IS cloud native, we didn’t invent this. 😼 People will update their terminology, we’re not doing anything new, Linux in infrastructure went through this a decade ago. It’s an update in vocabulary because it’s a shift away from the traditional distro model and has more in common with the rest of industry (k8s, docker, etc) than a desktop. The desktop is just the payload.

We know some people will complain but whatever, it’s our job to help people understand the tech and there are proper definitions for this stuff - The whole “immutables” or whatever slang people are making up doesn’t really make sense but we can’t control what people think, we can just do our thing and keep pushing out updates.

RancherOS doesn’t exist anymore, but a difference here is everything on the machine runs on the metal except whatever workload you have. Here’s people who do a way better job explaining it:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF7aTCoWoLQ
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9aDEF_4vr8

Our systems share the same tooling as Fedora CoreOS so this is probably a better example. You can make custom server images – we build on top of that too, similar to Bazzite but for server nerds: https://github.com/ublue-os/ucore - basically if you can script it, you can make an OS image out of it. Here’s bootc upstream where people are hanging out: https://github.com/containers/bootc/discussions

Hope this helps!