I don’t like Elon and nothing in my comment was defending him.

Please at least admit that you lose the moral high ground when in a debate you admit to not reading the other view point at all and personally insult your opponent.

My source wasn’t Tesla.

And that very case found the driver, who was actively pressing the accelerator pedal while leaning below the dashboard grabbing his phone 2/3rds at fault.

I won’t retract my statement but I added a link to tesladeaths.com showing that FSD has only caused 2 fatalities over its entire lifetime of miles. Even at 1/10th of Tesla’s reported miles that’s safer than a human.

Neither of those deaths were the current software version either so currently FSD 13.2.9 has caused 0 fatalities.

Thank you for the source! I agree that Tesla should’ve halted FSD and went all in on ensuring FSD sees and stops for busses, this is dangerous and mishandled.

My original claim wasn’t that FSD or Tesla is perfect, just already safer than humans.

Please note my below sources are from 2024 to get a full year and have data before the Trump administration. This means that the software is older and so doesn’t hit my 10x claim but does hit 5x. I’m confident 2025 will hit 10x. (And if we keep to my original claim being FSD specific, ie not including autopilot it is already at 10x.)

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-estimates-39345-traffic-fatalities-2024

1.2 fatalities per 100 million miles

Tesla 2024 fleet size(yes a Tesla source but tesladeaths is not up to date on fleet size)

https://x.com/tesla_ai/status/1905644814483251709

2.16 billion miles 2024 Expected deaths 34

Actual deaths 6 (once again being favorable to the opposing view including autopilot deaths in this total. For comparison, even Tesla deaths.com only claims 2 fatalities involving the use of FSD use over all time)

https://www.tesladeaths.com/

(Would’ve used this source for fleet size miles as well but not updated since 2019)

I’ve used a basically entirely biased against Tesla source for deaths. With their numbers Tesla fsd is still multiple times safer than a human.

For the record, I could find no record of FSD actually hitting a child getting on a bus. It’s still a supervised system and human drivers are aware it doesn’t work with busses and take action to stop for the bus. The coming update does in fact now stop for busses so it is being addressed, albeit I agree not with the speed and seriousness such a miss should merit.

I’d rather have a system with a human and computer ensuring safety. Even if at the moment there are still for sure situations where the computer is far worse than a human, it being better in the majority of cases still makes it more safe to have than not have.

Again you’ve yet to actually debate my sources or provide your own. You may continue to insult me or mock me as much as you want but I’m not interested in a conversation without actual discussion of the facts.

Four hours later that video wasn’t so easy to find was it?

This conversation isn’t productive. Agree to disagree have a nice day.

Edit: lol still downvoting me while you never provided your “easy to find” video showing FSD is easily fooled. Downvotes and mocking don’t make a good argument.

Anecdotal. I’ve also driven one and felt it safer. I didn’t lead with that in my post because anecdotes aren’t real evidence. Please share an actual study or report or information showing it’s more dangerous.

I agree right now is a weird in between as humans will keep looking at the road but may begin to daydream. But Austin with no one in the drivers seat shows were nearly past this in between.

Share me a video of the current version 13.2.9 being easily tricked.

Could you please share a video showing this demonstrated on version 13.2.9? I will happily watch and admit you were right if you can find a video of the current version being easily tricked.

Edit: To anyone reading this comment in the future think about what is revealed when not only is a video provided but I’m downvoted for merely asking for it.

Calling me stupid is attacking my character in my view but sure I mislabeled it when it was an insult. Your point?

Those are financial documents if they’re lying and you can prove it sue them and make some money lol

I agree the terminology is misleading and should be changed. If you’ve ever driven in one no driver with it on can be confused, the system will yell at you to look at the road.

Waymo is ahead right now in geofenced areas for sure, I like Waymo, this post was just specifically about Tesla.

Whether FSD is possible with out LiDAR is still an open question, but I think the safety personnel in Austin will be removed soon which will answer that question.

I would love walkable cities. I frequently bike to work you’ll get no disagreement from me there.

So you admit I’m not a bot? A persistent chiefs fan is a real person.

I never claimed that Tesla invented that system just stated that cars with it (teslas others) are safer than the majority of ones without.

Your second sentence is impossible with the way the system works, perhaps pornos aren’t good sources for accurate information?

If there’s no replacement for solid trustworthy data in your mind I don’t think this is a worthwhile conversation if you will trust literally no source.

No disagreement that the safer option is not driving at all.

I don’t think a car driving itself where you tell it is giving up human self determination tho.

Not only can it, it is a required part of FSD. You can not operate it without it making sure your eyes are on the road. Every source looking at actual incidents per mile driven shows that FSD (and Waymo and the others) is already safer than human drivers. I’d be happy to be proven wrong on that.

There are incidents. It’s not perfect, but right now that’s why humans must still be actively paying attention.

Do you think a car that alerts you if you look away from the road and forces you to pay attention or you lose your ability to use the new features is less safe than a vehicle that is unaware if the driver is texting/sleeping or whatever?

What type of source would you trust on this? If you don’t trust NHTSA what is your basis for saying Tesla FSD is unsafe?

For the moment absolutely, that’s why the system requires your attention and will lock you out of using it fairly quickly if you are distracted. Tesla drivers on FSD are forced by their car to pay attention to the road. Surely people can see how that alone makes it safer than all of the cars that don’t know their driver is texting or whatever in a car that can’t drive itself at all.