Dude…imagine if we could convince Trump/Musk and Space Force/Space X to do this. It’s like philosophy’s version of the Torment Nexus!

Thanks for the followup, I found a couple of plasma-wayland packages (I forget if they were through apt or the software center, and i don’t know what the difference is) and tried them out. One of them I’m not sure what it added, but the other did seem to create the necessary file for my partner’s launcher to use plasma wayland. I don’t know if it’s a mint thing, but we always had to do a full reboot between using wayland and x11 window managers; if you just log out and choose the other, stuff would be borked.

So to be clear, you believe Jill Stein voters to be representative of the ones “actually trying to put out the fire”? Am I understanding you correctly?

Please, elaborate…

If more of you would have voted for Jill Stein, we wouldn’t be in this mess!

/s in case that wasn’t obvious

Hah very different themes I’d say.

On the Beach is about all the people who thought it’d be a good idea to move to Australia in case all the nukes drop during the Cold War, and then the nukes drop and everyone in the northern hemisphere dies and they survive, but then they realize they’re just waiting for the natural wind patterns to bring all the radiation over to them to kill them too. The only way to win is not to play.

So similar in that they’re both very dismal.

Don’t say Linux then. If they already barely know windows, that’s an ideal situation, it’s going to be similarly confusing either way.

If your concern is that you think they would run into more stability issues when using a linux-based OS vs Windows, that’s a reasonable concern. But if we’re comparing against a sufficiently stable distro release, I don’t think it’s well founded.

Well at least the physical key works for the doors. What year is that?

Yeah, I wish there was a company that made a fully dumb electric car, but there’s just no incentive to do that. I have a 2014 gas car with a normal physical key that you use to turn start it, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen an electric car where you have to use the physical key to start the car.

has a real physical key that has to be in the cabin to drive

🤨 the way you say “has to be in the cabin” makes me think it’s not a real physical key, and is actually a wireless smart key that you leave in your pocket when starting the car.

It did really take off about 5 years ago.

Ever read the book On the Beach?

How does it compare to fzf?

Also, fd already means “file descriptor”.

It’s neat that this exists, but not neat if someone hosts it for a year, a bunch of fed users rely on it and share a bunch of links using it, and then the hoster takes it down for whatever reason, and now there are a bunch of dead links littered all over the place.

Even less neat if some malicious group can then buy the lapsed domain and forward all those dead links to ads and viruses.

Please host responsibly, is all I’m saying.

Oh, honey…

I would go a step further and say that any time one of these MAC systems has to resort to user interaction to do its job, it’s a straight up failure case: the system simply didn’t have enough information to do its job, ended up doing no better than a blanket “block everything” config, and is asking the user to do 100% of the heavy lifting of determining what should happen.

So, when I hear

If someone is lazy or not knowledgeable enough to make the right decision…No automated system can protect [them].

I hear: “every access control system is fundamentally broken”. Which is fine, maybe that’s true, there’s a reason social engineering is so useful. So then all these systems should prioritize streamlining that failure case as much as possible: Tell the user what is accessing what, when, how, and then make it trivial to temporarily (with well defined limits), permanently, (or even volatile-y using CoW/containerization/overlay fs) grant or deny access as quickly and easily as possible.

Every other system you’re comparing SELinux, AFAIK, handles this case better, which is why users tend to prefer them.

For the record, I’m not arguing that SELinux is bad at the actual access control part, I’m only answering why people don’t like using it, which is how it handles the failure case part. Now it’s been a while since I’ve used SELinux and I’ve never used setroubleshooter, but if you tell me it actually streamlines all of this to be smoother than every other tool, then I’ll install it tonight!

How do you know when you’re letting through a valid access, an unnecessary one that could be a vulnerability, and an actively malicious one?

I don’t think anyone is saying throw out all access control, they’re just saying SELinux adds too much unproductive friction for everyday usage. You said it takes 15m to troubleshoot. But that’s not a one time thing, that’s 15m that scales with the amount of new programs and updates you’re running. And 90% of people aren’t even going to be able to tell they’re looking at a malicious access if they’re in the habit of always working around blocks that show up.

Ah that’s fair, I didn’t look closely

Is this running in your rc (i.e. every single time you open a terminal)? Even if it’s safe, I’d be annoyed by any delay.

I’m going to say it’s not a “you” problem, but a “who you’re surrounded by” problem. Is this something you’re used to percieving accurately? Do you have friends or family who would actually mean it rudely? Because, as others have mentioned, I simply would not be able to function at work if I interpreted 👍 as rude/sarcastic.

I have to assume you’re young or your work doesn’t involve communicating with coworkers or clients over text. I’d also be curious if you look back at this post 5-10 years from now and think “wtf was I on about?” (I’d also be curious if civilization still exists 5-10 years from now, but I digress…)

It’s not sunk cost, dude. We agreed that $120 will get them 5 years of service that meets their needs. Even if they switch to jellyfin after 5 years, they still got their money’s worth.

It’s only sunk cost if they are worse off than if they had switched earlier. I guess if you’re arguing that they would still have $120 if they switch today, I would argue they should still pay that $120 toward jellyfin’s development. And that’s assuming they have time to switch to jellyfin AND it fits 100% of their usecases, either of which could be untrue.