• balsoft@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    There is no communist country on this planet, all examples you are thinking about are countries which have achieved socialism to some degree. Most of them are ruled by parties which want to achieve communism eventually (and thus call themselves communist parties). Nobody is claiming that those countries have achieved communism.

    And also, working people in those countries have it much better than their capitalist neighbours. There is a very clear difference if you look at speed of quality of life changes, HDI improvements, wealth distribution, or minority rights.

    • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      The ideal of communism is an impossible utopia. When people talk about communism they’re talking about the examples we’ve seen in practice.

      If you only want to talk about utopias, capitalism has one just as good and just as impossible. You could say that true capitalism has never been seen yet.

      • balsoft@lemmy.ml
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        23 hours ago

        Yes, I think it is important to talk about utopias, for it defines what we as a society are striving for.

        Communist utopia has a scientific basis, specifically dialectical materialism, labour theory of value, and stages of development in production relations. Capitalist utopia is based on capitalist propaganda - which can be encompassed by the term “trickle-down economics” - which has been disproven time and time again.

        Or, in other words, communist utopia is much more likely to be achieved than capitalist utopia.

        And as for “examples we’ve seen in practice”, again, if you compare the speed of development and working-class living standards in socialist countries vs. their capitalist neighbors, it’s pretty obvious which ones are closer to a utopia.

        • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          A communist utopia can only be achieved by despotic dictators willingly giving up power. The capitalist utopia (which has nothing to do with trickle down economics and more to do with everyone having perfect information) is not any less likely than that.

          • balsoft@lemmy.ml
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            18 hours ago

            If you actually look at the history of socialist states, you will see heads of party & state giving up their power in many cases. They’re not all despotic dictators like western-capitalist propaganda will have you believe, there are noticeable differences in different societies and historic periods.

            And actually, capitalist utopia is not possible without some form of “trickle-down economics”. Even if everyone had perfect information, by preserving private property on means of production you are ensuring that some people will accumulate more wealth than others, leading to an exponentially growing power imbalance. Only by believing that the “brave entrepreneurs” will share their wealth with their workers can you believe in a capitalist utopia.

            • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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              13 hours ago

              the history of socialist states

              Right, socialist states. We’re talking communist states here.

              Conflating the two along with your obvious ignorance of the pure capitalist utopia myth makes further conversation pointless.