Like that thing in 1984. And that episode of Star Trek TNG
Can you explain?
It’s a pretty obvious concept. And triple obvious if you’ve seen those two examples to which I referred. The central point is of course the concept, not anything that happened in my life. Replace “me” with “people in general”. Because it is very common. And then we pause and reflect and think about how this functions in our own lives and society in general and we have a nice discussion.
Could you explain specifically what thing in 1984, and could you also identify the episode of STTNG so I could look it up and perhaps read a synopsis?
He sees 2 lights but the authority tells him there are 3 lights.
Through torture the authority convinces him to trust the voice of authority over his own observations.
It’s a deep kind of convincing. It is heartfelt and he really does see what he’s told to see. A kind of religious conversion. (“The truth of the state is the only truth, do not trust the evidence of your senses”)
Or something like that.
But ya, they copied it for TNG. Picard got kidnapped and tortured. I forget the actual episode number.
I think you’re suggesting that this is somehow generally true in human behavior, but the examples you give are fictional and a result of torture.
Can you give a real-life example that doesn’t involve someone being mentally damaged from torture?
The red scare. The persecution of jews in nazi germany. The persecution of the first dude who suggested that if doctors washed their hands then less people would die of infection. Just say no to drugs. Cigarettes are good for you. And yes, our latest adventures with vaccines.
A good propaganda campaign and our natural urge to conform substitutes for torture in this case.
our natural urge to conform
And/or our natural preference for half-baked logic, conspiracy theory, scapegoating others, being part of the ‘in’ group, etc, etc.
I heard about a study where they put people in a room and asked them to identify the shortest of four lines. There would secretly be 3 people in the room gaslighting the fourth one by choosing the most obviously wrong answer and often times, it worked
Asch Conformity Line Experiment https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/history/asch-conformity-experiments
I’ll keep that one in mind. Thanks
Bros over here all Cardassian… There were indeed 5 lights.
I did that elsewhere in this thread. Look around. To copy-paste would be gauche.
Dude, I don’t think this is as obvious or self-explanatory as you think it is
yeah, i mean it seems obvious to me but only because I have a philosophy degree and understand what the hell he is talking about.
very few people have no idea wtf and ‘authoritative story’ is and they do not question the evidence of their immediate senses, ever.
And, yet, the “authoritative story” is reaching you through your senses. In court hear-say is inadmissible, for many reasons.
What causes you to trust the channels that the story reaches you through more than the direct channels of your own perception?
Was that trust earned, or simply granted?
Temptation. That’s the word I’d use. I am tempted, seduced, into a dream. A luscious invitation that I fall for.
So that’s deeply, nightmarishly fucked up, right?
Why don’t you trust yourself? What happened? 💜
By “I” I mean “people in general”. I worded it for poetic oomph.
It’s the concept that’s important here. The concept of taking authority over the evidence of your own senses.
As portrayed in those two examples I gave.
And then you think, " Gosh how am I doing this in my own life?". And then we reflect and discuss.
Sounds like projecting ngl
well if it was obvious then nobody would fall for it. thus the need for reflection and conversation
Now you get it! Waste of time, agreed.
I think you mean authoritarian.
No I mean authoritative you ungrammatic donkey
