Well, what I was saying is they “could”, and thus they are technically holding back. So thier failure to take Ukraine doesn’t prove they can’t take on Nato minus the US. And even now, it is still technically NATO, including the US. So their inability to take it isn’t the same as taking on NATO without the US. I don’t know if Ukraine could have held up without US money and such. Not sure the EU had enough to spare at the time. I know the EU is looking to increase production to reduce it’s reliance on the US, but I am not sure how far they have gotten.