I am an atheist (albeit I support our national churches/religious entities and believe they should be state financed) and it is fascinating that I agree with Leo XIV on an ethical, moral and even theological/spiritual level.
P.S. While I don’t believe in a meta-physical, abrahamic tradition-style god, I do think there is a lot of wonder, beauty and even sacredness (divinity) to the cosmos. Something along the lines of this quote from a book by Alan Watts:
The universe is the Big Bang, the beginning of the universe. And you’re not something that is a result of it. You’re not something that is a sort of byproduct of it. You are it. It’s like when you take a bottle of ink and you throw it at a white wall. Smash! And all the ink spreads out. In the middle, it’s dense, isn’t it? And as it gets out on the edge, the little droplets get finer and finer and make more complicated patterns.
So in the same way, there was a big bang at the beginning of things and it spread. And you and I, sitting here in this room, as complicated human beings, are the little fringes on the edge of that bang. We are the way it’s going now.
Another poster mentioned “That’s a very European mindset.” It’s not exclusively a European mindset, I’ve lived for several years in Asia and have visited multiple regions. This “mindset” is arguably common even among those who are not particularly religious.
National religious institutions provide a sense of belonging to the populace, help maintain our national identity and culture and help our national liberation struggle. Even as an atheist, these are clearly good things.
And there is no discrimination in terms of religious identity. I support our Orthodox Church, Catholic Church (which is actually much more diverse than in many countries) and the Crimean Muslim leadership.
One can argue this is not a mindset, but common sense and that American attitudes are a mindset.
From my time living in the US (several years, with extensive travels), I got the impression that America nominally has “separation of church and state”, but it in reality this separation does not exist. A significant portion of American Christianity (perhaps not the majority, but it is a huge portion, far more than most Americans would admit) is de facto an arm of the oligarch regime, focused on enabling tax fraud, spreading crime and corruption and running political bribery systems. And you can’t even shut them down because of the alleged “separation of church and state”. It’s funny how that works. :)
There is one anecdote that perfectly demonstrates what I am talking about:
And the cherry on top was a comment that I found when doing a web search to find the link above:
If churches opened their doors, they’d be subject to the same criminal and legal risk that any other private business would be responsible for. The world is not a perfect utopia, and churches have to protect themselves as much as anyone else. Why don’t you open your doors?
Wouldn’t you rather have people recognize why they turn to religion and nationalism instead of taking care of their fellow humans (for the sake of being human themselves instead of being kind in the expectation of a reward by a imagined deity)?
It’s the sick and bone crushing world we ourselves need to change so we can all finally be free as humans together - not look for belonging and identity, certainly not national which will only pit us against each other.
“Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.” (Yes, it can help you cope - but don’t forget to reflect on what you’re suffering from.)
“No saviour from on high delivers;
No faith have we in prince or peer.
Our own right hand the chains must shiver:
Chains of hatred, greed and fear.” Yup.
I explained my reasoning with some clear examples. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg, I am not going to write a 2,000 word wall of text unless I am having an interesting conversation.
There’s no such thing as common sense. Its just a way for people to claim their ideals as the standard because “I said so.”
I wonder if you see the irony in this statement and how it was presented “I said so”. :)
Come, on! I don’t believe you don’t see why I used the term “irony” in my post.
Sorry. I don’t buy it. You might disagree with what I am saying, but you almost certainly know why I thought your “I said so” and “statement of personal opinion” pieces are ironic.
How is that not a statement of personal opinion? Are you fucking trolling me at this point? I’m not going to put IMO at the end of every statement, that’s ridiculous.
What a weird world we live in.
I am an atheist (albeit I support our national churches/religious entities and believe they should be state financed) and it is fascinating that I agree with Leo XIV on an ethical, moral and even theological/spiritual level.
P.S. While I don’t believe in a meta-physical, abrahamic tradition-style god, I do think there is a lot of wonder, beauty and even sacredness (divinity) to the cosmos. Something along the lines of this quote from a book by Alan Watts:
What the actual fuck?
Another poster mentioned “That’s a very European mindset.” It’s not exclusively a European mindset, I’ve lived for several years in Asia and have visited multiple regions. This “mindset” is arguably common even among those who are not particularly religious.
National religious institutions provide a sense of belonging to the populace, help maintain our national identity and culture and help our national liberation struggle. Even as an atheist, these are clearly good things.
And there is no discrimination in terms of religious identity. I support our Orthodox Church, Catholic Church (which is actually much more diverse than in many countries) and the Crimean Muslim leadership.
One can argue this is not a mindset, but common sense and that American attitudes are a mindset.
From my time living in the US (several years, with extensive travels), I got the impression that America nominally has “separation of church and state”, but it in reality this separation does not exist. A significant portion of American Christianity (perhaps not the majority, but it is a huge portion, far more than most Americans would admit) is de facto an arm of the oligarch regime, focused on enabling tax fraud, spreading crime and corruption and running political bribery systems. And you can’t even shut them down because of the alleged “separation of church and state”. It’s funny how that works. :)
There is one anecdote that perfectly demonstrates what I am talking about:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/joel-osteen-megachurch-houston-beryl-response-b2576711.html
And the cherry on top was a comment that I found when doing a web search to find the link above:
This is extremely funny. 🤣
Wouldn’t you rather have people recognize why they turn to religion and nationalism instead of taking care of their fellow humans (for the sake of being human themselves instead of being kind in the expectation of a reward by a imagined deity)?
It’s the sick and bone crushing world we ourselves need to change so we can all finally be free as humans together - not look for belonging and identity, certainly not national which will only pit us against each other.
“Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.” (Yes, it can help you cope - but don’t forget to reflect on what you’re suffering from.)
“No saviour from on high delivers; No faith have we in prince or peer. Our own right hand the chains must shiver: Chains of hatred, greed and fear.” Yup.
There’s no such thing as common sense. Its just a way for people to claim their ideals as the standard because “I said so.”
I strongly disagree.
I explained my reasoning with some clear examples. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg, I am not going to write a 2,000 word wall of text unless I am having an interesting conversation.
I wonder if you see the irony in this statement and how it was presented “I said so”. :)
There’s no irony, making a statement of personal opinion isn’t remotely the same as making a statement of universal truth.
Come, on! I don’t believe you don’t see why I used the term “irony” in my post.
Sorry. I don’t buy it. You might disagree with what I am saying, but you almost certainly know why I thought your “I said so” and “statement of personal opinion” pieces are ironic.
How is that not a statement of personal opinion? Are you fucking trolling me at this point? I’m not going to put IMO at the end of every statement, that’s ridiculous.
That’s a very European mindset.
“In the beginning the universe was created. This made a lot of people angry and has widely been considered as a bad move.”
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