Pathetic how most commenters are arguing why communism is bad and not why capitalism is bad, when you live literally in late stage capitalism / fascism.
Every horrific thing happening under capitalism / fascism never seems to matter.
A good way to view fascism is as Capitalism donning its alter-ego to protect its image while it resorts to brutal means to protect itself. It’s Capitalism in different circumstances, not a unique economic system, which is why its riddled with contradictory mechanisms. Its always there as a tool for Capitalism to employ, it’s Capitalism in decay.
Fascism is Capitalism in more dire circumstances. It arises when Capital needs to defend the existing order via brutal means, it dons a mask and pretends its something else, despite the underlying mechanisms being the same. Fascism is Capitalism in decay.
Communism is entirely different from Capitalism, including fascism.
Capitalism has always existed in fascist regimes, fascism is Capitalism in decay. Communism is an entirely different structure. Read Blackshirts and Reds.
Capitalism has always existed in fascist regimes. Nazi Germany, Mussolini’s Italy, all places where the interests of Private Capital controlled the state and formed the basis of the economy. The purpose of fascism, after all, is to brutally protect Capitalism’s existing property relations from the decay Capitalism brings.
I’ve provided ample sources and rationale, and you’ve provided “nuh-uh.” I think we know who actually knows what they’re talking about between the two of us, indicated by not a single person agreeing with you.
Communism is communism. Fascism is fascism. Fascism is right wing leaning just like capitalism. Fascism is extreme right wing where capitalism is more center right. Capitalism and fascism go hand in hand.
Communism is on the complete other side of the spectrum.
The currently Socialist countries governed by Communist parties are the PRC, Cuba, DPRK, Vietnam, and Laos, and all are doing pretty well if we take into consideration harsh economic sanctions and embargoes or other unique characteristics inflicted upon them from the outside. Out of all of them, the PRC is doing particularly well and is the most developed, though Vietnam is rising very quickly, especially thanks to an excellent response to COVID that allowed manufacturing to shift towards it for production.
China, hmm, so Taiwan, Hong Kong, The Uyghurs control production so they are in charge? Doesn’t look like it. Civil unrest over lack of representation shouldn’t be a thing in a working communism right?
NK is a dictatorship and we all know it, it doesn’t matter what they call themselves. Also, from ANY journalism that has made it outside the boarders, I think it would be grossly unfair to call them even OK.
I might give you a couple of points for Cuba being throttled, but damn things aren’t good there.
I don’t have a lot of expertise in LAOS or Vietnam, things don’t look very rosey
Worldwide human-rights watches also don’t paint things well in Vietnam.
Even if you claim that’s all propaganda, places like Finland, Sweden, United Kingdom, and Europe don’t seem to have any where near the tumult over any of the countries you mentioned.
To be clear, I don’t think communism can’t work. But I also don’t think any of these countries really take communism seriously. Each of these should be overwhelmingly by the people for the people, but there seem to be serious issues about people and work.
The current state of capitalism is fucked too. You have to find places that aren’t being pillaged by the oligarchs no matter where you go, and that’s becoming harder and harder no matter your governmental structure.
Hong Kong is semi-autonomous and has relative control over its own unique sphere of economic structure, though is favoring increased ties with the broader PRC as that’s better economically. They are happy to be free from British colonial rule.
In general, there isn’t civil unrest over a lack of representation. In 2019 there were western-backed protests in Hong Kong, but those have faded and barely made a slim majority in popular approval even at the peak approval rating. Now it is far lower. Instead, faith in the government is rising, coalescing with improving material conditions:
The DPRK isn’t a dictatorship. It isn’t even a one-party state, it has 3 that form a coalition government. It’s quite a comprehensive system, and works based on the concept of approval voting.
Overall, though, information that is accurate is scarce, due to its secluded nature. It is heavily throttled like Cuba is, by brutal sanctions and embargo, and unlike Cuba, 80% of their buildings were destroyed, and a quarter of their population massacred during the Korean War. More tons of bombs were dropped on Korea in general than the Pacific Front in World War II, to add context.
Vietnam is rising dramatically in recent years. Laos is struggling a bit more, but it is making rapid improvements.
Western Human Rights orgs are almost entirely state-funded and for the purpose of exerting soft power, they don’t actually represent much.
Your biggest error though, is comparing the metrics of developing countries on even ground with developed Imperialist countries that gain their wealth by carving it out of the Global South. Finland, Sweden, the UK, EU, and US in general are Imperialist, and rely on predatory loans that require privatization of key resources and industries for foreign plundering. Production is outsourced so that the lives of the average Swede are built on the backs of brutal conditions in the Global South, and this is facilitated by Financial Capital. I recommend reading these resources:
Taiwan isn’t seeking independence, if you actually read the source indepencence is a minority position, just as unification is. They want to maintain their government, but in the economic sphere of the PRC.
Hong Kong indeed had a protest, that was western-backed, and that the majority largely did not support. They want inclusion with the PRC while maintaining some level of autonomy, which is what they have.
Polling within China backs what I said. The survey I linked even addresses your fears of “punishment” being a motivating factor:
Although state censorship and propaganda are widespread in China, these findings highlight that citizen perceptions of governmental performance respond most to real, measurable changes in individuals’ material well-being. Satisfaction and support must be consistently reinforced. As a result, the data point to specific areas in which citizen satisfaction could decline in today’s era of slowing economic growth and continued environmental degradation.
I didn’t provide a link to “state-sponsored propaganda” regarding the DPRK, while your source was “we all know it,” ie you had nothing but blind assertion.
Then you go into conspiracy theory territory and call me state-sponsored, rather than actually engage with my sources and arguments. You don’t have any counters to my arguments or sources to refute mine, so you attack me personally. That’s not an effective form of getting your point across, and lets me highlight that you would rather spend effort attacking me than my arguments, undermining the authenticity of yours. Not to be a debate-bro, but you are helping me prove my points.
Pathetic how most commenters are arguing why communism is bad and not why capitalism is bad, when you live literally in late stage capitalism / fascism.
Every horrific thing happening under capitalism / fascism never seems to matter.
A good way to view fascism is as Capitalism donning its alter-ego to protect its image while it resorts to brutal means to protect itself. It’s Capitalism in different circumstances, not a unique economic system, which is why its riddled with contradictory mechanisms. Its always there as a tool for Capitalism to employ, it’s Capitalism in decay.
Capitalism is not fascism, communism is fascism.
Fascism is Capitalism in more dire circumstances. It arises when Capital needs to defend the existing order via brutal means, it dons a mask and pretends its something else, despite the underlying mechanisms being the same. Fascism is Capitalism in decay.
Communism is entirely different from Capitalism, including fascism.
Capitalism cannot exist in a fascist regime. And communism is fascism.
Capitalism has always existed in fascist regimes, fascism is Capitalism in decay. Communism is an entirely different structure. Read Blackshirts and Reds.
Capitalism has never existed in fascist regimes.
Capitalism has always existed in fascist regimes. Nazi Germany, Mussolini’s Italy, all places where the interests of Private Capital controlled the state and formed the basis of the economy. The purpose of fascism, after all, is to brutally protect Capitalism’s existing property relations from the decay Capitalism brings.
You’re wrong.
I’ve provided ample sources and rationale, and you’ve provided “nuh-uh.” I think we know who actually knows what they’re talking about between the two of us, indicated by not a single person agreeing with you.
Communism is communism. Fascism is fascism. Fascism is right wing leaning just like capitalism. Fascism is extreme right wing where capitalism is more center right. Capitalism and fascism go hand in hand.
Communism is on the complete other side of the spectrum.
Communism IS fascism! How ignorant are you all here?
Communism is communism. Fascism is fascism. Opposite ends of the political spectrum. Communism is left wing, fascism is right wing.
That’s a myth.
It’s a fine point you make, which communist countries (which aren’t a dictatorship in a trenchcoat) out there are doing particularly well?
The currently Socialist countries governed by Communist parties are the PRC, Cuba, DPRK, Vietnam, and Laos, and all are doing pretty well if we take into consideration harsh economic sanctions and embargoes or other unique characteristics inflicted upon them from the outside. Out of all of them, the PRC is doing particularly well and is the most developed, though Vietnam is rising very quickly, especially thanks to an excellent response to COVID that allowed manufacturing to shift towards it for production.
China, hmm, so Taiwan, Hong Kong, The Uyghurs control production so they are in charge? Doesn’t look like it. Civil unrest over lack of representation shouldn’t be a thing in a working communism right?
NK is a dictatorship and we all know it, it doesn’t matter what they call themselves. Also, from ANY journalism that has made it outside the boarders, I think it would be grossly unfair to call them even OK.
I might give you a couple of points for Cuba being throttled, but damn things aren’t good there.
I don’t have a lot of expertise in LAOS or Vietnam, things don’t look very rosey
https://www.voanews.com/a/laotian-workers-facing-poor-economic-conditions-seek-work-elsewhere-/7597775.html
https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/laos-migrant-workers-brave-exploitation-unsafe-working-conditions-in-thailand/
Worldwide human-rights watches also don’t paint things well in Vietnam.
Even if you claim that’s all propaganda, places like Finland, Sweden, United Kingdom, and Europe don’t seem to have any where near the tumult over any of the countries you mentioned.
To be clear, I don’t think communism can’t work. But I also don’t think any of these countries really take communism seriously. Each of these should be overwhelmingly by the people for the people, but there seem to be serious issues about people and work.
The current state of capitalism is fucked too. You have to find places that aren’t being pillaged by the oligarchs no matter where you go, and that’s becoming harder and harder no matter your governmental structure.
Alright, there are a lot of claims you threw out with sources including “we all know it,” so I’ll break them down into their claims and address each.
By far “maintaining the status quo” is the number 1 preference in Taiwan, neither preferring independence nor reunification. I am especially curious to see how this changes in the coming months due to the trade war, and the US backing off of Taiwan.
Hong Kong is semi-autonomous and has relative control over its own unique sphere of economic structure, though is favoring increased ties with the broader PRC as that’s better economically. They are happy to be free from British colonial rule.
Generally high approval rates for the CPC, which nationally has over 90% approval rates. There are also 25 Uyghurs in the 13th NPC, higher than Han Chinese by proportion of population.
In general, there isn’t civil unrest over a lack of representation. In 2019 there were western-backed protests in Hong Kong, but those have faded and barely made a slim majority in popular approval even at the peak approval rating. Now it is far lower. Instead, faith in the government is rising, coalescing with improving material conditions:
The DPRK isn’t a dictatorship. It isn’t even a one-party state, it has 3 that form a coalition government. It’s quite a comprehensive system, and works based on the concept of approval voting.
Overall, though, information that is accurate is scarce, due to its secluded nature. It is heavily throttled like Cuba is, by brutal sanctions and embargo, and unlike Cuba, 80% of their buildings were destroyed, and a quarter of their population massacred during the Korean War. More tons of bombs were dropped on Korea in general than the Pacific Front in World War II, to add context.
Vietnam is rising dramatically in recent years. Laos is struggling a bit more, but it is making rapid improvements.
Western Human Rights orgs are almost entirely state-funded and for the purpose of exerting soft power, they don’t actually represent much.
Your biggest error though, is comparing the metrics of developing countries on even ground with developed Imperialist countries that gain their wealth by carving it out of the Global South. Finland, Sweden, the UK, EU, and US in general are Imperialist, and rely on predatory loans that require privatization of key resources and industries for foreign plundering. Production is outsourced so that the lives of the average Swede are built on the backs of brutal conditions in the Global South, and this is facilitated by Financial Capital. I recommend reading these resources:
Removed by mod
Taiwan isn’t seeking independence, if you actually read the source indepencence is a minority position, just as unification is. They want to maintain their government, but in the economic sphere of the PRC.
Hong Kong indeed had a protest, that was western-backed, and that the majority largely did not support. They want inclusion with the PRC while maintaining some level of autonomy, which is what they have.
Polling within China backs what I said. The survey I linked even addresses your fears of “punishment” being a motivating factor:
I didn’t provide a link to “state-sponsored propaganda” regarding the DPRK, while your source was “we all know it,” ie you had nothing but blind assertion.
Then you go into conspiracy theory territory and call me state-sponsored, rather than actually engage with my sources and arguments. You don’t have any counters to my arguments or sources to refute mine, so you attack me personally. That’s not an effective form of getting your point across, and lets me highlight that you would rather spend effort attacking me than my arguments, undermining the authenticity of yours. Not to be a debate-bro, but you are helping me prove my points.
Don’t feed the troll. You see ml, you block them.
Oh I did, just wanted some of that salt.