Oh yeah I appreciate that, but under an official migration system - they would have to get blahaj’s approval. Which they wouldn’t give if the community erupted.
But again, this happened without a migration system anyway - so what difference does it make?
Because it illustrates the underlying issue: who owns the community, who gets to decide what happens to it, who gets to decide whether each individual user gets to use it, or to be moved elsewhere to a different instance entirely that they may know nothing about?
I am saying that the choice should be at the level of the individual users - as in democratic. Example implementations may include a pop-up box appearing, notifying users that the community has moved and asking (requiring consent!) if the user would like to subscribe to the new one?
Currently it belongs to the mods, as too happened on Reddit, and to the admins. Lemmy is extremely authoritarian in nature btw, even more so than Reddit, e.g. Reddit does all of: (1) notifying users of a moderation event (e.g. post/comment removal) while Lemmy users in contrast may never find out that anything ever happened to their content; (2) providing a means of appeal or at least communication with the people responsible for that removal, chiefly the modmail but also similar means to contact admins; (3) in lieu of a modmail, people on Lemmy used to DM the mod who was reported by the modlog, however a long time ago now that was changed and now the modlog can simply say that it was done by a “mod”.
Users have little enough control over what happens to their content as it stands now. And as the 196 situation reveals, and the Rexodus likewise did long before that, people do not enjoy that feeling.
Your way, if you have a great and responsible set of mods and admins, would work great, just like a kingdom or dictatorship - very effective, very efficient, but with little to zero control over what happens to someone below the authority at the top. i.e. once you make a post to a community or subscribe to it, you automatically get ported over to the new place like a commodity that the owner decides to shift around as they please. If I am understanding you correctly, you wouldn’t even ask the user? I don’t mean in a nefarious way! It is totally “for their convenience”, of course… and it genuinely would work that way, if the mods and admins in question are trustworthy. But that is not always the case.
But the trustworthiness of the mods is not the strongest point imho, and rather it is the question of who owns their own personal accounts, who gets to decide what communities someone subscribes to or not? Are followers the property of the celebrity being followed, or of the follower? Systems that aid in migration - e.g. a pop-up box with a question asking for consent - are one thing, but systems that attempt to force migration cross a line that should not be crossed, imho.
Because it illustrates the underlying issue: who owns the community, who gets to decide what happens to it, who gets to decide whether each individual user gets to use it, or to be moved elsewhere to a different instance entirely that they may know nothing about?
I mean again, this is just down to a fundamental difference between how you and I view communities. I view them as modular concepts essentially temporarily on a server space, being able to move if they do please. And the federative nature of the Fediverse means that badly run communities can be abandoned for another one with the same name.
An example here that’s relevant: I unilaterally just moved obscuremusic from lemm.ee to piefed after lemm.ee shut down. It’s a small community, but was it wrong for me to do that?
I would be in favour of automated prompts going out to all users informing them of community moves.
Currently it belongs to the mods, as too happened on Reddit, and to the admins. Lemmy is extremely authoritarian in nature btw, even more so than Reddit, e.g. Reddit does all of: (1) notifying users of a moderation event (e.g. post/comment removal) while Lemmy users in contrast may never find out that anything ever happened to their content
Reddit mods can absolutely silently remove posts without telling the poster. I don’t know why you think they can’t.
(2) providing a means of appeal or at least communication with the people responsible for that removal, chiefly the modmail but also similar means to contact admins
I don’t think this is specifically omitted, just modmail infrastructure doesn’t exist properly. You can still do it the old fashioned way by DMing mods.
You are a good actor, but I was speaking here about bad actors that choose to do things differently. Small communities by their nature definitely have differing dynamics, especially in situations such as when the original founder is the only or primary mod, or the chief poster. Communities change dynamics as they age though, and the question of ownership gets much more murky then.
Reddit mods can absolutely silently remove posts without telling the poster. I don’t know why you think they can’t.
REALLY? I was a mod of a couple of different small to medium sized communities and I never heard about that. I definitely would have tested it too, by removing my own content and seeing if I received a notification event. Then again, Reddit has changed since the Rexodus so perhaps that is what you mean? Or shadow banning? (But that was done by admins, not mere mods.) And there was most definitely a modmail on Reddit, whereas on Lemmy there is no such method of connection provided.
But now I feel like you are ignoring what I said: no you can’t DM a mod, on Lemmy, when the modlog merely says that the action was done by a “mod” - unless you message every single mod listed in the entire community, one by one. Which for a small community with one mod is of course easy, but some of the largest communities have much larger mod teams, showing that just because something works under one set of conditions does not imply that it will work under all of them. Anyway DM mods definitely is not the same as a dedicated modmail. Perhaps I am not the best one to communicate this to you but you will see over time as you notice how Lemmy works on the large scale.
Oh yeah I appreciate that, but under an official migration system - they would have to get blahaj’s approval. Which they wouldn’t give if the community erupted.
But again, this happened without a migration system anyway - so what difference does it make?
Because it illustrates the underlying issue: who owns the community, who gets to decide what happens to it, who gets to decide whether each individual user gets to use it, or to be moved elsewhere to a different instance entirely that they may know nothing about?
I am saying that the choice should be at the level of the individual users - as in democratic. Example implementations may include a pop-up box appearing, notifying users that the community has moved and asking (requiring consent!) if the user would like to subscribe to the new one?
Currently it belongs to the mods, as too happened on Reddit, and to the admins. Lemmy is extremely authoritarian in nature btw, even more so than Reddit, e.g. Reddit does all of: (1) notifying users of a moderation event (e.g. post/comment removal) while Lemmy users in contrast may never find out that anything ever happened to their content; (2) providing a means of appeal or at least communication with the people responsible for that removal, chiefly the modmail but also similar means to contact admins; (3) in lieu of a modmail, people on Lemmy used to DM the mod who was reported by the modlog, however a long time ago now that was changed and now the modlog can simply say that it was done by a “mod”.
Users have little enough control over what happens to their content as it stands now. And as the 196 situation reveals, and the Rexodus likewise did long before that, people do not enjoy that feeling.
Your way, if you have a great and responsible set of mods and admins, would work great, just like a kingdom or dictatorship - very effective, very efficient, but with little to zero control over what happens to someone below the authority at the top. i.e. once you make a post to a community or subscribe to it, you automatically get ported over to the new place like a commodity that the owner decides to shift around as they please. If I am understanding you correctly, you wouldn’t even ask the user? I don’t mean in a nefarious way! It is totally “for their convenience”, of course… and it genuinely would work that way, if the mods and admins in question are trustworthy. But that is not always the case.
But the trustworthiness of the mods is not the strongest point imho, and rather it is the question of who owns their own personal accounts, who gets to decide what communities someone subscribes to or not? Are followers the property of the celebrity being followed, or of the follower? Systems that aid in migration - e.g. a pop-up box with a question asking for consent - are one thing, but systems that attempt to force migration cross a line that should not be crossed, imho.
I mean again, this is just down to a fundamental difference between how you and I view communities. I view them as modular concepts essentially temporarily on a server space, being able to move if they do please. And the federative nature of the Fediverse means that badly run communities can be abandoned for another one with the same name.
An example here that’s relevant: I unilaterally just moved obscuremusic from lemm.ee to piefed after lemm.ee shut down. It’s a small community, but was it wrong for me to do that?
I would be in favour of automated prompts going out to all users informing them of community moves.
Reddit mods can absolutely silently remove posts without telling the poster. I don’t know why you think they can’t.
I don’t think this is specifically omitted, just modmail infrastructure doesn’t exist properly. You can still do it the old fashioned way by DMing mods.
You are a good actor, but I was speaking here about bad actors that choose to do things differently. Small communities by their nature definitely have differing dynamics, especially in situations such as when the original founder is the only or primary mod, or the chief poster. Communities change dynamics as they age though, and the question of ownership gets much more murky then.
REALLY? I was a mod of a couple of different small to medium sized communities and I never heard about that. I definitely would have tested it too, by removing my own content and seeing if I received a notification event. Then again, Reddit has changed since the Rexodus so perhaps that is what you mean? Or shadow banning? (But that was done by admins, not mere mods.) And there was most definitely a modmail on Reddit, whereas on Lemmy there is no such method of connection provided.
But now I feel like you are ignoring what I said: no you can’t DM a mod, on Lemmy, when the modlog merely says that the action was done by a “mod” - unless you message every single mod listed in the entire community, one by one. Which for a small community with one mod is of course easy, but some of the largest communities have much larger mod teams, showing that just because something works under one set of conditions does not imply that it will work under all of them. Anyway DM mods definitely is not the same as a dedicated modmail. Perhaps I am not the best one to communicate this to you but you will see over time as you notice how Lemmy works on the large scale.