• merc@sh.itjust.works
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    18 hours ago

    That is a very intolerant position. Therefore, by the logic of this post, people who say things like “They must be ridiculed, ostracized, outlawed and if they still won’t shut up, they must be beaten senseless” must be ridiculed, ostracized, outlawed and if they still won’t shut up, they must be beaten senseless.

    • elbiter@lemmy.world
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      11 hours ago

      Bullshit. You are putting the attacker and the defendant in the same position.

      Tolerance is a contract: if you break it, you’re not covered by it.

    • bss03@infosec.pub
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      17 hours ago

      Yes, the resolution to the “paradox” of tolerance is that (a) “the intolerant” is anyone that would deny human rights to any other human (b) the intolerant must be denied political power since they will use it to create an intolerant society.

      Tolerance doesn’t justify political violence.

      However, defense of self or others CAN justify violence against the intolerant. The threat of increased stochastic violence due to inflammatory rhetoric is not as clear as a person stating their intent to kill and then brandishing a firearm, but both can be mortal threats. At the very least acts of political violence CAN be justified by the actor to a jury of their peers. Denying a political violence can ever be justified (I’m looking at you Bernie) ignores history and supports every authoritarian regime.

      I’m not saying that the Kirk murder was justified, but … I’d be willing to hear a defendant out as a jurist or jury member.

      • merc@sh.itjust.works
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        15 hours ago

        There is no resolution to the paradox of intolerance.

        What you’re providing is an excuse to be intolerant. You say “I’m allowed to be intolerant to this guy because this guy is intolerant”, but whatever excuse you use, you’re now intolerant, and you deserve whatever punishment you think intolerant people deserve.

        There’s no special category for “people who are intolerant, but only intolerant to those they view as intolerant”. There’s the tolerant, and the intolerant. If you are intolerant, no matter how good your reasons, you’re still intolerant. Thus, the paradox.

        • bss03@infosec.pub
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          2 hours ago

          No, I am tolerant of the intolerant. I believe they should receive all the same rights as I do: food, water, shelter, basic healthcare, UBI, etc. Political power is NOT a human right, it is a privilege and a responsibility. If you are intolerant, you don’t get to use political power for any purpose. This resolves the paradox, preventing the intolerant from creating a intolerant society from a tolerant one.

          Justification of (political) violence is really separate from the paradox of tolerance. Ideally, no violence would be required because none would be intent on and capable of denying someone else their bodily autonomy. Failing that, violence in defense (of self or others) is justified.

        • bufalo1973@piefed.social
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          12 hours ago

          The resolution comes when you understand that tolerance is a contract. If you don’t sign that contract you are not protected by it. Is that simple.

          • merc@sh.itjust.works
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            4 hours ago

            There’s no contract, there’s a social norm to be tolerant. And if you’re intolerant you’ve violated that social norm. That includes if you’re intolerant of the intolerant.

        • Olhonestjim@lemmy.world
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          10 hours ago

          There is no paradox. Tolerance is a contract. Be respectful and be respected. Be kind and receive kindness. Be tolerant if you want to be tolerated.

          Opt out of that contract and you will no longer be covered by it. You will reap what you sew.

          If you attack someone, they get to defend themselves. You don’t get to whine about them being violent against you. You earned that shit. And the rest of us get to laugh at you and applaud.

          I know. I know. It’s just so HARD to understand. For you.

          • merc@sh.itjust.works
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            4 hours ago

            Tolerance is not a contract. You’re never required to sign anything and agree to the terms.

            But, if it were a contract and not just a social norm, anybody who is intolerant breaks those terms, correct? That includes people who are intolerant of the intolerant?