Did a little digging, apparently in a 2021 lawsuit, documents were released with bad redactions (they blacked out over the data, but the underlying information was still able to be highlighted and copied/pasted. Very common error when redacting PDFs)
I haven’t checked the data myself but according one user this was the breakdown:
“Total staff as of 2021: 336 people
Administration: 35 people making an average of 4.5 million a year
Game Developers: 181 people making an average of 1 million a year
Steam Developers: 79 people making an average of 960k a year
Hardware Developers: 41 people making average of 430k a year”
Normally I would guess that “average” here probably means a few people making a ton of money while others get shafted. But I think “admin” probably accounts for that. We have no official way of knowing the true breakdown since this info is not supposed to be public
This actually seems like not a terrible spread. The average for the top earners is a little more than 10x the average for the lowest earners… Obviously outliers could be skewing that data (there could be one hardware developer making 30 million while the others work for poverty wages) but from the data we have, this isn’t nearly as wide a gap as I would have expected.
Valve moved into hardware long after its other ventures, so it’s not surprising the hardware devs make less – they’re newer. Still, $430k/yr is an enviable salary…
This was from 2021, so prior to the Steam Deck… that was really their break-out moment, I think, with regards to hardware. The Steam Link and Steam Controller were neat but didn’t really capture their respective markets, and the Index was widely considered one of the best VR headsets on the market but that’s a relatively small market, and it priced out all but the enthusiast tier consumers. The Steam Deck on the other hand had mass appeal and basically ushered in a golden age of handheld PC gaming… not to mention the immense hype around their recent hardware announcements. Could be that their hardware team is making more now.
Wouldn’t surprise that much, as far as I’ve heard from as far as I remember Valve is a great place to work and by all accounts treat their employees well.
I mean yeah and no. I manage a team, I make 10%-12% more than the team even though technically we do the same tasks. The difference is I need to know their job, but also manage a schedule, and allocate resources, while planning sales for the future stream so they don’t run out of work. It’s a different skillset on top of the team skill requirement.
Not justifying a C suite at 20 million over dudes making 60k though
Unfortunately that isn’t true, by accident this has been tested by tech companies like Netflix they were paid in stocks when the company was worth nothing but as it grew they got paid more and more until it became apparent that they didn’t actually have to work anymore entire companies became filled with zombie employees people who don’t work like at all beyond what they are contractually obligated to do, it created huge discontent between the teirs of worker the one’s actually doing the work and the ones getting paid, you almost can’t pay people beyond a certain amount because they don’t work for you then they don’t need to they can live a perfectly fine life without working and nothing gets done so you just have to higher a new staff who once again you can’t in pay too much or they won’t need to work and you’ll just have more zombie employees.
Are you saying the more people get paid the less work they do? This doesn’t make sense to me. This sounds like a management and hiring issue. If someone doesn’t want to work, you replace them with someone who does. Don’t hire lazy fucks, hire competent people.
If I had a job that pays say 1 million a year, and I know I won’t be able to get paid nowhere near as much at another company, I would make sure I work hard enough not lose that amazingly paid job, because otherwise I will have to work for half that and give up my rich lifestyle.
Again, a management issue for letting employees become zombies and a hiring issue for hiring lazy bums.
The research is mostly about overpaying, not high but equal pay for everyone doing the same job. It happens when people compare their effort to others’ and if they feel over-rewarded it can actually lead to two outcomes:
Increasing effort to justify it, or
reducing effort
And the evidence is actually mixed between the two outcomes, because different people respond differently to different incentives, like flexibility, holidays, etc.
Equity theory mostly applies only when the work is measurable and the teams/individuals compare themselves constantly.
IMO this can be solved by better management and equal pay for equal work/skillset.
There are also other incentives that can crowd out internal motivation, such as surveillance, pressure, inequality. But obviously management doesn’t want to talk about those, much more profitable to reduce the pay.
High pay alone doesn’t really trigger crowding out.
I still maintain my position that this is largely a management and greed issue. And high and equal pay alone doesn’t create a lazy, zombie workforce.
Here’s some studies and theories arguing the opposite:
I wonder if they’re also getting paid more or does greedy Gabe just take it all to fund his mega yachts.
Hey that’s not fair.
Gabe is also spending all that money on Aston Martins Valkyries to race around the world.
Did a little digging, apparently in a 2021 lawsuit, documents were released with bad redactions (they blacked out over the data, but the underlying information was still able to be highlighted and copied/pasted. Very common error when redacting PDFs)
I haven’t checked the data myself but according one user this was the breakdown:
“Total staff as of 2021: 336 people
Administration: 35 people making an average of 4.5 million a year
Game Developers: 181 people making an average of 1 million a year
Steam Developers: 79 people making an average of 960k a year
Hardware Developers: 41 people making average of 430k a year”
Normally I would guess that “average” here probably means a few people making a ton of money while others get shafted. But I think “admin” probably accounts for that. We have no official way of knowing the true breakdown since this info is not supposed to be public
This actually seems like not a terrible spread. The average for the top earners is a little more than 10x the average for the lowest earners… Obviously outliers could be skewing that data (there could be one hardware developer making 30 million while the others work for poverty wages) but from the data we have, this isn’t nearly as wide a gap as I would have expected.
Valve moved into hardware long after its other ventures, so it’s not surprising the hardware devs make less – they’re newer. Still, $430k/yr is an enviable salary…
This was from 2021, so prior to the Steam Deck… that was really their break-out moment, I think, with regards to hardware. The Steam Link and Steam Controller were neat but didn’t really capture their respective markets, and the Index was widely considered one of the best VR headsets on the market but that’s a relatively small market, and it priced out all but the enthusiast tier consumers. The Steam Deck on the other hand had mass appeal and basically ushered in a golden age of handheld PC gaming… not to mention the immense hype around their recent hardware announcements. Could be that their hardware team is making more now.
Wouldn’t surprise that much, as far as I’ve heard from as far as I remember Valve is a great place to work and by all accounts treat their employees well.
What does administration mean there? Like accounting, human resources and so? How could they make, in average, way more that developers??
I’d think it’s marketing teams, HR, managers, the C-suite.
Those who manage people usually make more than those who dos tuff because they take on more responsibilities.
Yeah I know that’s bullshit and that they shift responsibilities all the time, but good managers do shoulder bullshit so workers can work.
The C-suite being included there made sense of that disparity.
I mean yeah and no. I manage a team, I make 10%-12% more than the team even though technically we do the same tasks. The difference is I need to know their job, but also manage a schedule, and allocate resources, while planning sales for the future stream so they don’t run out of work. It’s a different skillset on top of the team skill requirement.
Not justifying a C suite at 20 million over dudes making 60k though
A highschool friends dad worked at Valve and they’d take the entire company and their families to Hawaii every year.
Seemed like a good place to work.
Would make him the first billionaire in history to pay his workers their worth, so… Not a fucking chance.
Unfortunately that isn’t true, by accident this has been tested by tech companies like Netflix they were paid in stocks when the company was worth nothing but as it grew they got paid more and more until it became apparent that they didn’t actually have to work anymore entire companies became filled with zombie employees people who don’t work like at all beyond what they are contractually obligated to do, it created huge discontent between the teirs of worker the one’s actually doing the work and the ones getting paid, you almost can’t pay people beyond a certain amount because they don’t work for you then they don’t need to they can live a perfectly fine life without working and nothing gets done so you just have to higher a new staff who once again you can’t in pay too much or they won’t need to work and you’ll just have more zombie employees.
It is actually very well established:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11211-008-0063-2
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0030507368900093
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_crowding_theory
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3906839/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214804322001422
https://www.bsfrey.ch/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/crowding-effects-on-intrinsic-motivation.pdf
I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. Why do you frame the workers doing the work they’re paid to do as bad?
I don’t get it. Are there any sources for this?
Are you saying the more people get paid the less work they do? This doesn’t make sense to me. This sounds like a management and hiring issue. If someone doesn’t want to work, you replace them with someone who does. Don’t hire lazy fucks, hire competent people.
If I had a job that pays say 1 million a year, and I know I won’t be able to get paid nowhere near as much at another company, I would make sure I work hard enough not lose that amazingly paid job, because otherwise I will have to work for half that and give up my rich lifestyle.
Again, a management issue for letting employees become zombies and a hiring issue for hiring lazy bums.
It is actually very well established:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11211-008-0063-2
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0030507368900093
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_crowding_theory
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3906839/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214804322001422
https://www.bsfrey.ch/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/crowding-effects-on-intrinsic-motivation.pdf
The research is mostly about overpaying, not high but equal pay for everyone doing the same job. It happens when people compare their effort to others’ and if they feel over-rewarded it can actually lead to two outcomes:
And the evidence is actually mixed between the two outcomes, because different people respond differently to different incentives, like flexibility, holidays, etc.
Equity theory mostly applies only when the work is measurable and the teams/individuals compare themselves constantly.
IMO this can be solved by better management and equal pay for equal work/skillset.
There are also other incentives that can crowd out internal motivation, such as surveillance, pressure, inequality. But obviously management doesn’t want to talk about those, much more profitable to reduce the pay.
High pay alone doesn’t really trigger crowding out.
I still maintain my position that this is largely a management and greed issue. And high and equal pay alone doesn’t create a lazy, zombie workforce.
Here’s some studies and theories arguing the opposite:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33705159/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficiency_wage
https://wol.iza.org/uploads/articles/275/pdfs/efficiency-wages-variants-and-implications.pdf
That sounds a lot like the violence inherent in the system
No no Gabe just works 31.244.670 times as much as his employees.
capitalism gonna capitalism, man. you know the answer.