• Deceptichum@quokk.au
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    5 hours ago

    UBI is not the solution, ending the capitalist system is.

    All UBI does is lessen the suffering slightly, why not just directly meet people’s needs without the middleman.

    • hector@lemmy.today
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      5 hours ago

      Ubi would never happen, and if it did they would constantly remove people from the roles until it was a subsidy to their supporters, a patronage.

      Looking at medicaid and food assistance, I do not see how anyone could think it would not be ratfucked if it got through in the first place.

    • Xerxos@lemmy.ml
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      4 hours ago

      UBI is not the solution, but a great first step towards a better system.

      To make it work well, you need strong regulations on a lot of systems: banks, utilities, corporations.

      At some point it will be easier to just give the state control of everything concerning basic needs. Then to control institutions that ‘fight back’ the most against regulations, like banks and mega corporations.

      You see where this might lead?

      It’s a slow way towards a better economic system without the need for a revolution.

      • rako@tarte.nuage-libre.fr
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        2 hours ago

        Your analysis is too light. The state isn’t some magical benevolent entity which is somehow “on the wrong path”. The state is an instrument of domination driven by the dominating class: the bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie is against everything you cited. It will not slowly act against its own interest, willingly lose power and dominance. It will always fight for, at the minimum, keeping power.

        That is why historically the only way to have changes that contradict the dominating entity’s interest is for the dominated entity to band together. It’s the only way anything ever changes: the balance of forces moves in the interest of the dominated. Women didn’t earn the right to vote because men were nice, but because women fought for it. Social progress never happens because the bourgeoisie is nice (that’s a very nice propaganda trick) but because the bourgeoisie has to compromise.

        Waiting/wishing/hoping for the state to be nice, which is what asking for ubi is, and the “revolution without violence” the socdem has pushed about, never works. As long as the people who are legitimate are dominated, it will not happen.

        Let’s stop dreaming in idealistic what-ifs and act in materialist actions. The material conditions define our existence. Let’s set our material conditions of existence, without asking nicely, and the balance of power will force the dominating power to compromise.

      • Commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 hours ago

        It’s a slow way towards a better economic system without the need for a revolution.

        We’ve had 100 years of unopposed reformism, and look where we are 🥀

        The state isn’t some friend that exists for the public good, it literally dances to bourgeois private interests by design. There will be no UBI or better healthcare or whatever unless material conditions and bourgeois interests necessitate it (to prevent a proletariat revolution is one example). There’s a reason why it’s called a dictatorship of the bourgeois.

      • Deceptichum@quokk.au
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        4 hours ago

        If we got UBI today, the majority of people would stop pushing for the better system and would be content with “better than they had”.

        Effectively setting back liberation by centuries and perpetuating suffering, meanwhile it would always be a sword of damocles dangling above the peoples head with fear of it being withdrawn or diminished by future conservative governments at any minutes notice.

        And frankly arguing for it is a terrible idea on principle, it’s like haggling and starting from the middle instead of the lowest.