this is a topic i’ve been heavily involved with because i still consider myself to be someone who prefers using technology at a very beginner friendly level, plus it’s very good when a linux operating system makes you feel right at home when it has a modern desktop environment. this is why i really like gnome, its simplicity and usability is something available for everyone, for beginners and for a lot of other people, but if you had to, say, rearrange xfce or kde for someone who was an elderly person or an absolute beginner so that they wouldn’t have any trouble using linux, how would you do it? (screenshot is my current linux mint desktop, very simple and extremely user friendly!!!)

  • woelkchen@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    13 days ago

    Is that a practical question looking for a real solution right now or is more of a philosophical question?

    If the latter:

    Tech should be approachable by teaching users and add safeguards, not by dumbing things down to a degree users stay dumb. Options should be easy to find, preview what they do, and always offer to restore defaults. A desktop for extreme beginners may even adopt an idea from gaming and have them do a tutorial section first. It may even double as a wizard of which accessibility features to enable for elderly users.

  • Count Regal Inkwell@pawb.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    14 days ago

    Those newfangled immutable distros might benefit them, since they’re unlikely to want to or care about modification, and it’s extra security.

    Set up the web browser with a strong ad-blocker, maybe whitelisting YouTube since non-techy people are unlikely to know what to do if youtube throws up a stink about the adblocker.

    Set up auto-updates maybe. For safety and such.

    Otherwise make sure it looks like a dead ringer for whatever they are already used to (usually Windows) – Same background, icons in the same places and looking similar if not the same, panels set up the same way, etc. – This is easier with Cinnamon or KDE Plasma. Gnome… Even if you like it, it’s too different, yanno? Unless they’re coming from Mac, and even then it’s not the same.

    P.S.: Lovely background of a gay bird prince. <3

  • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    13 days ago

    No, Gnome is a non-starter for being as mouse negative as it is. You are very heavily supposed to use Gnome with keyboard shortcuts and it will only sometimes begrudgingly allow you to use the mouse.

    I also really want to kick the app drawer in the head. Why is it two operations deep? Why can’t it be sorted by category like every other Linux app menu?

    I would go with Mint Cinnamon, increase font sizes or UI scaling, switch to the Cinnemenu because it offers bigger square icons rather than a tiny list, turn off a lot of its extra features, and put launchers for commonly used applications on the desktop. Configure updates to automatic, and otherwise sand down a few rough edges and I think you’re good to go.

  • HexesofVexes@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    15 days ago

    It’s going to sound really silly but here goes:

    1. Ensure their background is the same as it was (seriously, they often use it as an extra way to find things).

    2. Where possible, use windows icons for desktop shortcuts and mask link names to match vocab they’re familiar with.

    3. Have rustdesk set up with a link saying “Let <your name> help me”.

    4. Make sure they have their password written down somewhere.

    5. Make sure you have their password written down somewhere.

    6. Where possible have background updating, where not possible have a .sh file to do it for them.

    7. Add desktop links for things like downloads, documents and pictures.

    These are tips for any distro when moving less tech savvy relatives over. For those that like to game, ensure your fs on their gaming drive is a Linux one as it stops weird behaviour. Also, you know, install the games for them!

  • Quack Doc@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    15 days ago

    As someone who used to sell computers to elderly and people who are generally non tech literate, as well as ran computer literacy courses;

    ChromeOS + something like flatpak. I don’t think anything else will really work in the current linux world. Holding on hope for Cosmic based DE.

    A Distro must have

    • Easy AND reliable DE. KDE has been way too buggy and gnome has been way too hard for my parents to use. Old people often have an extremely hard time learning, it needs to replicate what they already know which is either going to be Windows or OSX most likely. Cosmic should be able to do both nicely when ready.

    Reliability is so fucking key here I can not understate it. The computer glitching out is entirely unacceptable. They will not be able to do any debugging nor will you likely be on call 24/7 to fix their issues. They also need security so you can’t just “set and forget” either with no updates in a false sense of stability. Older folk copy and paste shit. Permissions and stability is key here. Flatpak has a lot of potential but it’s not there yet.

    No real time AV really hurts here.

    • Extremely strong app selection with either android or wine app support. Wine is the most preferable. A lot of people are reliant on windows programs for things like tax filing and all sorts of stuff like crochet software and what not. Android apps however can often be good enough and are extremely simple so with a little help, and you will need to help, they can get by with android app support.

    • A11y, screenreaders, OSKs, maginifers etc. We need all of it if we want to fit the “generic elderly support”

    • Good performance. Elderly people do NOT like updating systems, Their systems will likely be old. And well they are old too. If a system is slower then what they are used to, and generally non responsive, they may think the bloody thing is broken. cough cough gnome cough cough

    I genuinely do not that that any DE let alone distro is an acceptable daily driver for “general people” because general people have such a wide variety of use cases and needs. Some folk need crochet and tax software, some folk need CNC software like stitchfiddle, Some need magnifier glasses and speech to text. and man, this is only the more common of things i’ve seen.

    Remeber folk, a PC that does 99% of what people generally need, does not mean that it will fit the needs of 99% of people. Here is hoping to a bright future, but I don’t think it will be a close one.

    • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      14 days ago

      No real time AV really hurts here.

      Nowadays, simply having a browser with ublockOrigin is enough to have them avoid nearly all of those dangers. Also set the browser to always block notifications, I’ve had 3 different family members asking me to remove a virus, which was just Chrome notifications from sketchy sites showing up nonstop on windows.

      • d-RLY?@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        14 days ago

        I also see a lot of people that come in to have their PC’s fixed because of “viruses” that I am able to make go away by just turning off browser notifications. Which I also just install uBO or uBO Lite on almost 100% of browsers on PCs I work on (even if not related to the task at hand). Also I disable lots of the notifications for browsers and other programs in the Windows 10 and 11 notification settings.

        Though I have been seeing an uptick of fucked up malware browser extensions that set themselves as “Your organization” policies that are getting harder to remove. In most of those cases I have found that they replace the shortcuts for the browsers to first launch shit from a self-reinstalling location in the root of C drive and/or in AppData. Shit is very frustrating. Mac OS also has some motherfuckers of hijackers that are even worse to get rid of.

        Aside from those, the really fucked notifications come from the AV programs that can’t stop themselves from freaking out users. Like even if the user has for some reason paid for every single up-sell because of those notifications. They still show them shit like “You MIGHT be infected.” Though seeing those things have been great for me to point out how the user should actually cancel their subs since at that point it is just scare tactics and adware (which slows shit down).

  • hperrin@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    15 days ago

    ChromeOS is already an operating system for children. Like, literally. Schools use it because it works well and is really easy to use, and runs on very cheap hardware.

    • Rudee@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      15 days ago

      Ahh, so the solution is to install gentoo and customise it for simplicity and minimal user permissions /s

  • intensely_human@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    13 days ago

    I’d made the default desktop wallpaper just some text that says “try typing man man in the terminal”

  • WolfLink@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    14 days ago

    You have to be able to do everything you need, including modifying things, updating, installing software, and fixing issues without using the command line at all, and the amount you have to modify and fix really has to be minimal.