Well, no, he specifically considers a future without Steam and acknowledges ongoing support for the game is dependent on Steam for matchmaking.
Because matchmaking is a central service.
And the reason he wants to keep all these dumb features nobody wants like matchmaking and cross-play and… you know, unlockables, is that he sold the game with them and doesn’t want to take them away from players when they continue to support the game as a community.
I don’t know, that seems reasonable to me.
The story he’s telling you is precisely “developers figuring it out”. Of course he’d want to still have cross play. Of course he still wants matchmaking. He made the game, that’s the point.
And his game is pretty easy to fix, all things considered. It’s a Left4Dead-like, you only need a handful of people in a session that can run over P2P. Expand what he’s describing to peristent worlds with hundreds of people, seamless matchmaking and microtransactions and you have a very complex web to tangle. A web that, by definition, you can’t afford. Because if it made money you wouldn’t be taking it down.
And again, neither Faliszek nor me are saying we don’t want games preserved. I’m saying that wishing really hard for games to keep working doesn’t make them keep working. You HAVE to fix all the legal and technical issues. That’s the job.
That’s continued support. Not EOL. If continued support is his way to EOL his game that is of course his right. But also impossible to guarantee, precisely because of the reasons he listed. Thus an idiotic impossible stance to uphold.
No, that’s the migration to EoL. He talks through the difference in very articulate ways. Specifically, it’s the transition from those features being centralized to them being handled without their support. So the game goes from a central server to peer-to-peer, matchmaking goes from their service to the Steam API for it and so on.
That’s what end of life looks like if you need to keep the game running, The game won’t run without matchmaking, so you need a matchmaking solution. They went with this. They could have gone with a server browser. One thing wouldn’t necessarily be less work than the other, the idea is they had to reimplement that chunk of the game in a way the community could maintain.
If you just put the game out and don’t enable some solution for matchmaking then there’s no matchmaking and you can only play by yourself.
If you’re frustrated that this is done with such complications imagine how it feels for the people doing this on the way to a certain layoff or bankrupcy. Which is the whole point people are trying to impress here.
You are wrong. A corporate entity will always provide some service under any version of “SKG”.
I guess you could make it so it doesn’t, but then all console games are excluded (since they all use some central first party API), all Steam games are excluded for the same reason and you’d be forcing developers to build their own substitutes for everything from hosting platforms to login platforms.
I suspect you’re misunderstanding what some of the stuff means or you’re visualizing something that just doesn’t fit how online games are built. Are you picturing a situation where no third parties are providing anything at all? No Steamworks, no Xbox Live, no servers of any kind hosted anywhere? Because that can’t be the requirement, unless you want to make every game since Quake 3 illegal.
Yes, the legal requirement would (or should) mean after EOL absolutely no dependency on outside services unless the infinite availability of that service can be guaranteed, which is of course impossible.
None of the currently existing services like Steam, Xbox Live, etc are technically needed to run the games. They offer additional services. Hence they are called services. But you do not need any of them to run the core games.
I’m not advocating for developers to implement these services themselves. I’m advocating for the absence of these services not making my games unplayable. I’m willing to compromise for that to only be the case after support for my games was dropped.
You are factually wrong about that. A whole bunch of running an online game is dependent on the platform, depending on how you’re running it.
If you built a game without cross-play and are relying on the first party for some of the online functionality, then making it work outside of it is extra effort. And even if that third party service isn’t Xbox or Steam it is very likely to be a third party service like Pragma or whatever, so it’s still something you’d have to replace.
So no, most of your Xbox games won’t work if you remove all traces of Xbox Live. That’s not how this works. And if your answer for future games is for it to be illegal to buy third party networking tools then your plan isn’t going to work, either.
But also, it’s not what’s being proposed in the first place. This Ross guy even assumes it won’t work like that explicitly. His argument is that third party providers would change to comply. Which… maybe? But then you’re just moving the problem around. How would they change to comply? Who handles their costs when a client drops support? That’s not how any of this works, their services aren’t free for a reason, you can’t just have them continue to provide them for free to every client by law.
Well, no, he specifically considers a future without Steam and acknowledges ongoing support for the game is dependent on Steam for matchmaking.
Because matchmaking is a central service.
And the reason he wants to keep all these dumb features nobody wants like matchmaking and cross-play and… you know, unlockables, is that he sold the game with them and doesn’t want to take them away from players when they continue to support the game as a community.
I don’t know, that seems reasonable to me.
The story he’s telling you is precisely “developers figuring it out”. Of course he’d want to still have cross play. Of course he still wants matchmaking. He made the game, that’s the point.
And his game is pretty easy to fix, all things considered. It’s a Left4Dead-like, you only need a handful of people in a session that can run over P2P. Expand what he’s describing to peristent worlds with hundreds of people, seamless matchmaking and microtransactions and you have a very complex web to tangle. A web that, by definition, you can’t afford. Because if it made money you wouldn’t be taking it down.
And again, neither Faliszek nor me are saying we don’t want games preserved. I’m saying that wishing really hard for games to keep working doesn’t make them keep working. You HAVE to fix all the legal and technical issues. That’s the job.
That’s continued support. Not EOL. If continued support is his way to EOL his game that is of course his right. But also impossible to guarantee, precisely because of the reasons he listed. Thus an
idioticimpossible stance to uphold.No, that’s the migration to EoL. He talks through the difference in very articulate ways. Specifically, it’s the transition from those features being centralized to them being handled without their support. So the game goes from a central server to peer-to-peer, matchmaking goes from their service to the Steam API for it and so on.
That’s what end of life looks like if you need to keep the game running, The game won’t run without matchmaking, so you need a matchmaking solution. They went with this. They could have gone with a server browser. One thing wouldn’t necessarily be less work than the other, the idea is they had to reimplement that chunk of the game in a way the community could maintain.
If you just put the game out and don’t enable some solution for matchmaking then there’s no matchmaking and you can only play by yourself.
If you’re frustrated that this is done with such complications imagine how it feels for the people doing this on the way to a certain layoff or bankrupcy. Which is the whole point people are trying to impress here.
As long as a corporate entity is providing service the game is not EOL and beyond SKG.
You are wrong. A corporate entity will always provide some service under any version of “SKG”.
I guess you could make it so it doesn’t, but then all console games are excluded (since they all use some central first party API), all Steam games are excluded for the same reason and you’d be forcing developers to build their own substitutes for everything from hosting platforms to login platforms.
I suspect you’re misunderstanding what some of the stuff means or you’re visualizing something that just doesn’t fit how online games are built. Are you picturing a situation where no third parties are providing anything at all? No Steamworks, no Xbox Live, no servers of any kind hosted anywhere? Because that can’t be the requirement, unless you want to make every game since Quake 3 illegal.
None of the currently existing services like Steam, Xbox Live, etc are technically needed to run the games. They offer additional services. Hence they are called services. But you do not need any of them to run the core games.
I’m not advocating for developers to implement these services themselves. I’m advocating for the absence of these services not making my games unplayable. I’m willing to compromise for that to only be the case after support for my games was dropped.
You are factually wrong about that. A whole bunch of running an online game is dependent on the platform, depending on how you’re running it.
If you built a game without cross-play and are relying on the first party for some of the online functionality, then making it work outside of it is extra effort. And even if that third party service isn’t Xbox or Steam it is very likely to be a third party service like Pragma or whatever, so it’s still something you’d have to replace.
So no, most of your Xbox games won’t work if you remove all traces of Xbox Live. That’s not how this works. And if your answer for future games is for it to be illegal to buy third party networking tools then your plan isn’t going to work, either.
But also, it’s not what’s being proposed in the first place. This Ross guy even assumes it won’t work like that explicitly. His argument is that third party providers would change to comply. Which… maybe? But then you’re just moving the problem around. How would they change to comply? Who handles their costs when a client drops support? That’s not how any of this works, their services aren’t free for a reason, you can’t just have them continue to provide them for free to every client by law.
That’s continued support. Not EOL. As long as a corporate entity is providing service the game is not EOL and beyond SKG.