If a country needs to overly emphasise an ideal, that’s usually because that ideal doesn’t apply in that country (“Land of the free”, “Democratic people’s republic of …”).
If a person needs to subscribe to patriotism, it’s usually because they have never accomplished anything better in their life than being born in a specific place.
Nationalist patriotism is a religion that worships dirt.
Actually, it’s usually a Nationalist tactic to paint any/all opposition as being treasonous, thereby laying the groundwork for targeting them with the military.
There is no difference between patriotism and nationalism. Both instill pride in non-achievements (like being born in the right place) while degrading others for the offense of being born somewhere else.
Patriotism is loving your country and wanting to do the best for it. Nationalism is the poison version of that.
This is absolutely it.
As a Moroccan, I can relate. We’re ranked as the most patriotic country in the world, but I honestly can’t see exactly why. Like, sure, we have cool cities and cool dishes, but we also have problems regarding the Healthcare and education sectors, tourist traps, immigration problems (both from outsiders living here and Moroccans living abroad), consistently terrible internet speeds, public sexual harassment on women, like how is this something to be proud of? And I haven’t even gotten into geopolitics, which is a whole can of worms that I’d rather keep unopened.
And you mean to tell me that WE are tasked with hosting the World Cup? That smells like a giant catastrophe waiting to happen.
It’s a very common thing really. The better a country works and the less the country has to compensate for, the less patriotism there is. And of course vice versa.
I thought it was just a coincidence.
Idk, I feel like one failure of governments is not sharing the successes and having big discussions about what they want to be/do. Patriotism vs nationalism smbc.
I don’t really feel that that’s the same point.
For example, I live in Vienna. Public transport here is amazing. Housing is pretty great. Education is free and good. Public healthcare is free and really good. I’m going to keep voting and contributing to keep these things good. If things turn bad, the wrong people get into power, and these things will sour, that’s sad. But then I can still move somewhere else.
And no matter what happens with my city, it will not change who I am and/or how good/valuable I am.
And also, it really doesn’t matter how other places are doing. That’s why I really, really disagree with the “patriotism” in the comic. “I’m going to work on my house because it’s the best house” is a pretty stupid thing to say. Does that mean if your house isn’t the best, there’s no point to work on your house? Does that mean you think all other houses suck?
What even is the point of having the “because it’s the best house” in there at all?
I improve my house because I live there, that’s the right reasoning.
Idk, I feel like one failure of governments is not sharing the successes
That’s often the case, that’s correct. But that shouldn’t be done for the purpose of “because we have the best country/city/…”.
Be proud of the things you accomplish, not about where you accomplish them at.
I agree that the first panel is off; I would replace it with “I’m going to work on my house because I want it to be the best house it can be”, or something similar.
And, at least for democracies (or similar), one of their bigger failure modes is that people:
- don’t feel like they (do/can/should) contribute to the place they live;
- do not value the work that others do for the place and community;
- take for granted the natural resources, and don’t safeguard them for the future.
Consider how it is absurd for a normal person to run for public service, and how air quality has plummeted in so many places. I think it could be healthy to be proud of a group project you participated in. It’s a bit sad that countries/states/cities/neighborhoods so often fail to be such projects.
(Which I guess is all to say that we should gatekeep patriotic pride. That’s a weird stance I’ve landed in.)
It sounds like you’re proud of your country and want it to improve. That’s what the SMBC comic is saying is “patriotism”. They might have used simpler & fewer words than you did, but that’s only to dumb it down so it’s easily understood.
No. I am not proud of my country, that would be stupid. I am proud of my kids, I am proud of my accomplishments, but I certainly are not proud of things I took very little part in making.
Are you proud that air exists? I have better things to be proud of than a country.
Well, not exactly.
The entire purpose of patriotism is the tribalism; honestly, I didn’t believe a government exists that doesn’t encourage “us vs them” thinking. Now, that’s not to say all nations are xenophobic; but just because it’s not taken to the extreme does not mean it doesn’t exist.
At the end of the day this is all part and parcel of the millennia old class war that has fucked up nearly every society on this planet in one way or another.
(The correctly used double negative was confusing for me at first, btw.)
You make a very interesting point I haven’t ever thought about before.
While I have always considered myself a patriot to a mild degree, I never associated it with tribalism directly. Even with the many faults of all countries, it’s OK to be proud of where you are from. (It does make perfect sense that tribalism is the end goal of state sponsored patriotism though.)
In my mind, the fine line after patriotism was usually nationalism where tribalism runs deep and hate-based rhetoric becomes extremely effective. The definition of a patriot is somewhat twisted at that point. (ie: unless you believe [insert something random], you aren’t actually a patriot and therefore an enemy of the state.)
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, btw. Your perspective is something interesting to think about, s’all. (I am leaning on the agreement side, FWIW.)
(For the people reading this that may not realize that I am using the word “nationalism” in a negative context, I am. If that chaps your hide still, replace it with ‘christian nationalism’ or ‘white nationalism’ and fuck off. Everyone else, sorry for the disclaimer.)
Not gonna miss this chance to look educated quote
And for the click-averse:
The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.
-Credited to Arthur Schopenhauer
Turns out, Schopenhauer is more eloquent than me :)
That’s enough there, Patriot. Give me ten Pledge of Allegiances and a Hail Mary.
Whoa, you dont Trump or King Jong Un? Then whoz your daddy?
OR because the elites don’t like the things that make people proud of, and want to force their version of patriotism into everyone
