In reality there’s no practical difference. For instance, the head surgeon of a hospital’s surgery department makes control decisions every day - what supplies to requisition and when and how much, what equipment to acquire, what staff to hire with what qualifications and how many… this is a position of power. But that head surgeon is also part of the surgical team, they’re part of the infrastructure, they’re part of the service. They are an essential part of the proper functioning and organization of the surgery department.
They are the buereacracy. They make decisions that directly affect the lives of patients, decisions which those patients have no say in. They are inseparable from the whole. Their decision-making cannot be replaced by a committee of unqualified individuals, it cannot be farmed out to a public vote, and it cannot be left to a government official no matter how well-intentioned. The authority for those decisions - the power - is necessarily concentrated in the hands of the person most qualified.
People in roles like that are “the system”, or the control, or the power, or whatever you want to call it.
We [cryptagion, infinitesunrise, for_some_delta, me, etc.] are talking about 1) political power, 2) over the society as a whole, that is 3) effectively unchecked, since the only so-called “check” (voting) is a circus.
In the meantime, your example is about 1) decision making, 2) in a very restrict scope, in a way that 3) can easily have internal counters and checks (i.e. if the head surgeon is doing some dumb shit, other surgeons should be able to remove them).
In other words your whole comment boils down to three paragraphs of “ackshyually, no practical difference between apples and oranges”. It’s so fucking bad that, to be blunt, I’m not wasting further time with it.
I think they’re more suggesting that breaking the system will fundamentally and necessarily break some of the public services that thousands of people depend on, and if you’re serious about breaking/changing the system, answering the fundamental questions of “how do we prevent as many needless deaths due to service interruptions” is important.
Experts exist. Individuals may concentually yield to expertise. Individual autonomy is maintained by all parties.
“The system” as in capitalism remains a class struggle between owners of capital/land and laborers like the expert surgeon. The sentiments of “fuck the system” can be expressed in other phrases like “no gods, no masters” or “dump the bosses off your back”.
Nobody here is complaining about the existence of infra-structure. OP is talking about who controls it. It’s about power.
In reality there’s no practical difference. For instance, the head surgeon of a hospital’s surgery department makes control decisions every day - what supplies to requisition and when and how much, what equipment to acquire, what staff to hire with what qualifications and how many… this is a position of power. But that head surgeon is also part of the surgical team, they’re part of the infrastructure, they’re part of the service. They are an essential part of the proper functioning and organization of the surgery department.
They are the buereacracy. They make decisions that directly affect the lives of patients, decisions which those patients have no say in. They are inseparable from the whole. Their decision-making cannot be replaced by a committee of unqualified individuals, it cannot be farmed out to a public vote, and it cannot be left to a government official no matter how well-intentioned. The authority for those decisions - the power - is necessarily concentrated in the hands of the person most qualified.
People in roles like that are “the system”, or the control, or the power, or whatever you want to call it.
We [cryptagion, infinitesunrise, for_some_delta, me, etc.] are talking about 1) political power, 2) over the society as a whole, that is 3) effectively unchecked, since the only so-called “check” (voting) is a circus.
In the meantime, your example is about 1) decision making, 2) in a very restrict scope, in a way that 3) can easily have internal counters and checks (i.e. if the head surgeon is doing some dumb shit, other surgeons should be able to remove them).
In other words your whole comment boils down to three paragraphs of “ackshyually, no practical difference between apples and oranges”. It’s so fucking bad that, to be blunt, I’m not wasting further time with it.
I think they’re more suggesting that breaking the system will fundamentally and necessarily break some of the public services that thousands of people depend on, and if you’re serious about breaking/changing the system, answering the fundamental questions of “how do we prevent as many needless deaths due to service interruptions” is important.
Experts exist. Individuals may concentually yield to expertise. Individual autonomy is maintained by all parties.
“The system” as in capitalism remains a class struggle between owners of capital/land and laborers like the expert surgeon. The sentiments of “fuck the system” can be expressed in other phrases like “no gods, no masters” or “dump the bosses off your back”.