• novibe@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    There’s a weird misunderstanding of what a “vanguard” is, in both left anti-communist and communist circles.

    A vanguard is not a self-defined group that rules over the proles and directs them towards a revolution and governs once it’s won.

    Vanguards are not things that exist in the present. Vanguard is just a term to help understand a revolution after it happens.

    When a revolution happens, the most politically advanced (in class consciousness and left theory) individuals and groups that participate will steer the people towards socialism. They will lead, by example, on who to fight, how and why.

    During the revolution, they aren’t called anything and specially not by themselves.

    But after the revolution, when analyzing it, those people are then called the vanguard of the revolution.

    Any communist that says they want to “form and participate in a vanguard party” has no understanding of revolutions and left theory.

    Any left anti-communist that derides vanguards for being authoritarian and “replicating state oppression” also have no understanding of revolutions or left theory.

    Honestly we would all be better off just not using the term vanguard at all anymore.

    • Bababasti@feddit.org
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      2 days ago

      Any left anti-communist that derides vanguards for being authoritarian and “replicating state oppression” also have no understanding of revolutions or left theory.

      You know, you can be anti-authoritarian and still be a communist. Anarcho-Communism is a real thing.

      • novibe@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        Idk man, if you are against all communist movements in history you’re an anti-communist to me 🤷‍♂️

        • dogbert@lemmy.zip
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          2 days ago

          No! Real communism is when you theorize and speculate on the internet! China, USSR, Cuba, Vietnam, etc. those countries were fake communism!

          • novibe@lemmy.ml
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            1 day ago

            This comes from the unfortunate viral idea that communism has stages.

            Some people get really attached to this idea, and either become super against it or super for it. Then they end up wanting to either fully concentrate on “lower stage communism” and idolize militaristic aesthetics of early communist revolutions, and the perceived “toughness” and “authoritarianism” they had. In the extreme this becomes shit like the ACP.

            On the other hand, others completely forgo any large scale timeline thinking, and start fantasizing and theorizing about a possible quick jump to “stateless, classless, moneyless” society (which is in itself a misinterpretation of what communism is but that’s another thing completely) in a single revolutionary moment and process.

            There are no stages, communism is not total anarchy either. Communism is the means and methods the working class uses to abolish itself. This should start with a revolution, and continue until it’s finished. This process likely would take many generations. And it would be one continuous revolution. This is communism, this state of affairs. Of the long revolution of self-abolishment of the working class.

            What comes AFTER, is a stateless classless moneyless society. What is dissolved first and when depends on the revolution, but it wouldn’t all be at once, or it would. Who knows.

    • ThunderQueen@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      You might be surprised how many m/l communists actually aspire to be the vangaurd and call themselves as such.it is very sus. Reads as power hungry to me. Lile, it gives “volunteers for ice” kind of vibes but from the other side. I dont trust people like that to let go of power once they have it

      • novibe@lemmy.ml
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        11 hours ago

        Idk man I think there’s as many people like that as “anarchists” who live under bridges and dump dive.

        It’s just that libs and left anti-communists usually see any type of real actual action and revolutionary practice as “evil”.

    • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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      1 day ago

      Any communist that says they want to “form and participate in a vanguard party” has no understanding of revolutions and left theory.

      So, did Soviets get the concept wrong? It’s often claimed dictatorship of the proletariat doesn’t mean an actual dictator, yet there it was.

      What do we call the Soviet concept of vanguard if not vanguardism?

    • flora_explora@beehaw.org
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      2 days ago

      Hm, so if you don’t want to use the term vanguard anymore, how are you going to talk about the seizing of power by a small authoritarian group during a revolution? And what would be your solution to prevent this from happening?

      • novibe@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        That doesn’t happen though. What we saw were rightwing counterrevolutionaries taking over the USSR, China etc.

        But historically it’s a great mischaracterization of all socialist revolutions to say they were “overtaken by authoritarians”.

        All revolutions are “authoritarian”.