• bluGill@fedia.io
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    11 months ago

    You still need resistive heat as heatpumps don’t work below about -20C and those temperatures happen to at least some car buyers.

    • GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      heatpumps don’t work below about -20C

      I don’t think that’s true? There are cold weather models that can work at COPs > 1.5 at -30C. Are we talking about a sizing constraint for the model here, perhaps?

      • foggenbooty@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        There are, but then I think you’d have problems with the effective rang of the AC in the summer. To my knowledge this is all about at what temperature the coolant is a liquid and when it’s a gas (because that’s how you exchange heat).

        A traditional AC only needs coolant that does this at summer temperatures. A heat pump tries to use one that will work at colder temperatures as well. A cold weather heat pump goes even further but I think there is a sacrifice in AC efficiency in the summer.

        Somone please correct me if I’m wrong. But I’m not sure if a do-it-all extreme cold and extreme hot heat pump exists, and as a car manufacturer you want to put in the one that will fit most cases, as opposed to a house which only needs to operate in the range of the climate it is built in.

        • Cocodapuf@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          It would make sense if the two stage heat pumps use different liquids in the different stages. I don’t actually know how these are made, so I can’t assert that this is how it works, but I would be surprised if it worked any other way.

        • anomnom@sh.itjust.works
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          11 months ago

          I’m pretty sure that’s not how refrigerant (not coolant) works.

          Extra insulation around the expansion valve and piping may be necessary. Or possibly heating around them. But the main limits are the size and speeds of the compressor and fan(s).

          Home heat pumps are getting much better in colder climates. But I’m not sure of the efficiency in vehicle sized units. I’m really interested in them for a camper project I’d like to build though. But might have to wait for more of the cars that feature them to arrive in salvage yards.

          • foggenbooty@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Thank you for the correction. I know the properties of the refrigerant are important, but you’re correct that the other side of the equation is how much it’s compressed. If it’s true that compression plays a larger part than the refrigerant at working in lower temperatures, then that does explain why we wouldnt see them in cars. The rise in cost for both the compressor and higher energy usage could make them less appealing to manufacturers.

      • bluGill@fedia.io
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        11 months ago

        If it is rare enough and you don’t have an emergency that is the right thing. Odds are the rest of your city doesn’t have the ability to deal with those temperatures and so you going out will make things harder for emergency workers who must get out. If your city deals with this often then everyone will know how to deal with it and expect you to deal with it. You cannot shutdown your life for something that happens every single year, but if it is just a day or two every 5 years it isn’t worth being knowing how to deal with it other than the minimum emergency needs (that is make sure your HVAC system at home can handle it)