What are the options for increased privacy in how you pay for things where you live?
Cash is the obvious answer, but what about buying stuff online?
UK here. Thinking of ditching cards/contactless for good old cash. No idea about online payments - not doing anything illegal so might persevere with cards for now. Zero experience with crypto.
GNU Taler is an anonymous digital cash, but it’s not yet widely adopted, I think only a few banks in Switzerland are using it. Hopefully if continues to gain momentum.
Cash is the correct option.
The person raising alarms about note scanning is misinformed about how frequently atms actually scan bills as they go out (it may be that all British atms have been updated in the last ten years but it’s not likely) and has completely discounted the laundering effect of just buying something small with your big bill or getting change at a store somewhere.
The argument against cash is that they know what bill you took out and that they know where that bill got deposited from, because the atm reads the bill serial and the bank does too when the shop makes their deposit. So they know where you went!
Even if you can only pull from an atm that scans the bill serial and you have a bank that actively correlates that information to your kyc account holder information and uses facial recognition to verify it’s you using the atm taking physical custody of the withdrawl, when you use a 50 or a 20 to buy a bag of potato chips or ask a bar to change your 100, the cash you get back isn’t now associated with you.
Further: places that deal with cash do not deposit every bill they take in, so there’s a decent chance that the panopticon will never associate your withdrawal with having gone to the corner store or the bar sometime after you withdrew the money. Those bills may have ended up making change for someone else or in the cash portion of the tip out or used to cover some expense that day or any number of other things.
So the choice is between some electronic form of payment where there’s an absolute paper trail between you and the recipient of your money, with a transaction id that can be correlated to your purchase.
Or
The possibility that the atm read the serial number of the bills dispensed to you, then if they made it into some shops daily deposit, the indication that that bill was possibly spent at that shop.
No indication it was you, no paper trail, no transaction id, no amount of purchase that can be correlated with actual items based on their price, just two data points with no real correlation between them.
Use cash.
Monero
Coincards allows you to buy gift cards with crypto.
Cash isn’t private due to banknote serial scanning. Now we need a remixing service for physical cash.
For cryptocurrencies, look at Monero.
Where I live I can get cash at the supermarket. They scan my card and handle cash right from the cash box, I’ve never seen them scanning the money before they give it out. I think cash is still the best option for private payment in day to day life scenarios.
You really thing they can do targeted tracking with banknote serial numbers? This is paranoia my friend :D
https://netzpolitik.org/2025/bargeld-tracking-du-hast-ueberwachungsinstrumente-im-portemonnaie/ Sorry for german. But apparently baknote serial number tracking is a thing. High profile threat level but doable.
I am saying that cash payments are not significantly more private than bank card payments. What you do with that information is up to you.
They are. when I pay using a bank card many informations are shared with “partners”. With cash I don’t have to give my name to anyone.
You pull money from an ATM which scans the serials and associates them with you. You spend that bill at a shop which brings them to the bank at the end of the day where the serial is collected. So there is the information that you visited a particular shop at a particular day and bought something there.
This can be crosscorrelated with information from a dozen other sources. That infomation will practically never be used to you advantage.
easy, go at an ATM, get 20$ bills, and then ask people (friends, cashier etc) to change it for smaller or larger bills
That assumes that notes spent at a store are kept and never reused; that’s simply not true. If you buy a €5 coffee with a €5 note and then later in the day someone buys a €3 muffin with a €10 note, your €5 note is given to them as change. Repeat that process in a town or city and that cash gets pretty shuffled quite quickly.
Your scenario doesn’t also take into account till “float” where a portion of cash is kept in the till/store/elsewhere to seed the till the next morning for the first customers of the day, should they need change for their purchases.
Cash is pretty accessible where I live, but I’m always in for a surprise when I gravitate towards self-checkout and realize that it’s a card-only machine.
Prepaid cards used to be my go-to online, but it seems that fewer and fewer payment processors are letting them through their “security” checks. They were also next to impossible to obtain when I was in Europe. For a lack of better options on hand, I went with privacy.com’s virtual cards, which doesn’t really anonymize things in the eyes of MasterCard, but I suppose it’s better than nothing.
The only other thing I could think of is signing up for eBay or Amazon with a pseudonym, paying with gift cards purchased at a store with cash, and shipping to a PO box or Amazon pick-up location.
Ideally Monero, but it’s not as straightforward to obtain and there’s a very limited selection of vendors that accept it.
I use prepaid cards for Twitch and similar online services. It’s great because they always try to dark-pattern you into subscriptions, but then they’re all plaintive when your account runs out and they don’t have a credit card to perpetually drain. (actually, it’s more like “stages of grief”… first it’s alarmist: “your payment has failed!!!” then it’s businesslike: “remember to re-subscribe!” THEN it’s plaintive: “(name of performer) misses you on Our Moneydraining Platform!” then it’s nostalgic: “remember the good times you had on Our Moneydraining Platform? It’s not too late to re-subscribe!”) However, there’s usually a slight extra charge for the cards.
Cash irl is great but a slight downside is making sure you’re always carrying enough. Also, if you drop it somewhere it’s just gone.
privacy com
I use it to put transaction dollar limits on my subscriptions, satellite radio in particular, so they can’t jack up my rates automatically.
I don’t put much stock in privacy.com being truly private, but it does break the data chain of using the same card for everything. I wish my credit union offered virtual cards.
not available in many countries
Prepaid credit card? Although I’m not sure to which extent it’s really private. Usually the type of ‘voucher’-like payment options are kinda sketchy.
I think you’re pretty much limited to the kind of options the seller accepts and they are usually not the type of options to value privacy.
IME crypto is largely useless as a means of payment, not just in the real world but also online. Literally nothing I have ever bought online could be paid with crypto, no stores that sell useful tangible things takes them, be it hardware (kitchen, computer, whatever…), groceries, things for hobby projects. There’s just nowhere to spend it.
We had different experience I guess. I have bought both online services using Monero and Bitcoin such as VPS, email, aliases, art, PC components, bedsheets, food, drinks, clothes
VPS, email and aliases have no use in real daily life outside of small niche hobbies and is a poor indicator of how useful cryptonis as currency.
I’m intrigued about PC hardware, bedsheets, food and drink directly with crypto from a store, because I have never seen that.
I pay for my VPN with Monero, I pay my mobile carrier (VoIP + data eSIM) with Monero, and the last time I travelled internationally I also got a data eSIM for that with Monero. Every so often I need to get through a Google “give us a phone number” prompt, and the one-time SMS OTP service I use is also paid with Monero. There’s also stores where you can buy gift cards for real-world things (Amazon etc.) with Monero.
There’s also stores where you can buy gift cards for real-world things (Amazon etc.) with Monero.
I guess that’s highly location dependant, we don’t have amazon in my country. Even if we did I’d rather use my credit card than shop with them though…
That’s fair, if Amazon gets your real name and address anyways, the privacy protection of paying with Monero isn’t as big of a deal.
which VoIP do you use? as for the one time sms, is it smspool?
Yep, smspool. For VoIP it’s JMP.Chat locally, and. silent.link when I travel (data only).