• VinnyDaCat@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    31
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    7 days ago

    I feel bad for a lot of people who don’t want violence.

    I don’t want it either, but they’re backing us into a corner. There have been many, many attempts at settling this peacefully, and it just hasn’t happened yet.

    • BanMe@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 days ago

      As Churchill said, you can’t reason with a lion while your head is in its mouth.

        • Basic Glitch@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          edit-2
          6 days ago

          I mean it’s a quote of a fact.

          You can’t reason with anyone while under attack, but also the brain just don’t work as well in conflict/survival mode. This is a strategy they’ve been planning for decades, and started putting into action years in advance.

          They are backing us into a corner bc they are trying to instigate violence to proceed with the next part of their plan.

          It might be inevitable, but if you’re looking at violence/conflict as a resolution while knowing it’s part of their plan, you need your own plan and strategy in place to know where you go from there.

          What happens once a civil war is kicked off? Their plan is to declare an emergency/martial law and use the military, federal, and state law enforcement and all their weapons and resources against their own civilians in order to crush dissent. Once that happens they already have their new government in place ready to take over on day one, bc a coup was the plan all along.

          We need a strategy in place to defend. Force without any strategy or planning behind it is still just reasoning with the lion while your head is in its mouth.

          • Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            6 days ago

            I’m not disagreeing with the quote or anything, I’m a revolutionary communist who participated in civil disobedience in pro-palestine demonstrations (I’ll be there in Madrid this very evening to push for a general strike against genocide). I just find it ironic to quote Churchill of all.

          • VinnyDaCat@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            6 days ago

            We don’t just need a strategy, we also need leaders.

            It’s difficult though. Like you said, they’ve been planning this for a long time. They control so much that resistance is hard to put together and organize.

            That said, at the end of the day if it comes to it I would much rather flail about and resist than give in without a fight.

  • Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    17
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    6 days ago

    Reminder that “you can’t make the system better by voting” applies even when you win the actual votes. Chile found out when democratically-elected socialist leader Salvador Allende was murdered in cold blood by a fascist CIA-backed coup and replaced by a fascist dictator, and Spain (my homeland) found out when we democratically elected a leftist coalition during the Spanish Second Republic, only to have a failed coup which turned into a civil war in which Fascists backed by Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy fought against the legitimate democratically elected government (supported only by the USSR while the USA, England and France looked the other way during Nazi bombings such as that of Gernika), ultimately with Fascists winning the war and creating a 40-year fascist dictatorship of which we still sadly live the consequences.

    • Grapho@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      6 days ago

      Chile also found out when that piece of shit bootlicker Borics won pretending to be a socialist only to immediately kowtow to the US’ every whim once in office.

  • BurgerBaron@piefed.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    edit-2
    6 days ago

    said everyone sane, but not knowing how

    I’ve read the declassified sabotage guides but people still have things to lose before they have nothing to lose.

  • PissingIntoTheWind@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    6 days ago

    Like. Why do people trust judges in America? I grew up where our local judges were financed by the mob with bullshit like owning the juvenile detention centers. Where kids were sent to keep it profitable for the owners. Who some were the very judges throwing kids away for nothing.

    Judges are not going to save us. At this point replace them with Ai judges. I’m sure they’ll do a better job.

  • Agent641@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    6 days ago

    I knew there was a reason I never got permanently identifiable tattoos like everyone else in my age group and kept my hair and beard long so I can change my appearance with a pair of scissors and a razor in just a few minutes.

  • Sadness Nexus@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    6 days ago

    Honestly, the fact that ICR just does what it wants on American streets is pretty weird to me. How have people just not chased them off yet? So weird.

    • JustKeepStretching@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      6 days ago

      They are confronted all the time and there are a bunch of viral videos of people literally chasing them out of neighborhoods

    • TomArrr@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      6 days ago

      Whether or not you believe the election was stolen, the simple fact that something like that is able to happen is unnfuckenbelievable. I’ve worked on projects that don’t have any impact irl where this would be impossible. It truly boggles the mind how exposed US elections are to corruption, without even mentioning the word gerrymander.

      They need to get themselves an AEC.

    • zululove@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      6 days ago

      Bro it’s all a ruse whether it’s a card or machine or in person vote u think powers that be will allow the voters to disrupt them with a suprised candidate lol cmon bro

  • BilSabab@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    6 days ago

    Ukraine 2013-2014 - literally saved the country from being dismantled and absorbed by russia.

      • BilSabab@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        6 days ago

        more like anything is possible when folks get together and push back in a concerted effort. that wall of fire was as real as it gets.

        • RenLinwood@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          6 days ago

          Ukraine 2013-14 was a fucking CIA backed color revolution, the current regime in Ukraine is an extremely transparent US puppet, Russia being a repressive shithole doesn’t change any of that or make our motives for orchestrating it any less evil

            • RenLinwood@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              6 days ago

              https://archive.org/details/why-and-how-the-usa-government-perpetrated-the-2014-ukraine-coup

              https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/05/chronology-of-the-ukrainian-coup/

              https://mronline.org/2022/07/06/anatomy-of-a-coup/

              https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-helped-trigger-ukraine-war

              The involvement of US intelligence agencies and NGO’s in the 2014 coup is a verifiable fact, as is our long history of orchestrating similar coups and overthrowing democratically elected governments in support of our foreign policy. Same shit different decade.

              • BilSabab@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                6 days ago

                it’s like “the best of russian propaganda narratives all in one place half the price double the length”. It’s a story easy to believe for those not in the know but it has little to do with actual events. This goose is up for gavage.

                The reality was that the president Yanukovych (the one who eventually fled) broke away from the so-called Donetsk clan which he represented since the 90s and started hostile takeover of the entire economy including properties of oligarchs from different regional groups. He was assisted by russians who promised him a deal similar to the one they have with Lukaschenko in exchange of several tradeoffs that involved among other things russian military presence in Crimea, economically detrimental natural gas prices and gradual disarmement and dissolution of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. It was a Faustian bargain of sorts if you think about it.

                So he started to consolidate power inch by inch until he started to leave out people who brought him to power back in the 90s and elevated him to prime minister during early 2000s, and then helped him rebuild his influence during the mid-to-late 2000s in favor of his new russian friends who sold him a bill of goods. So he initiated a change of Constitution to give himself more power and get shit done. At the same time he attempted to deal with European Union to broker favorable trade deals to appease the parliament and parliamentary opposition but mainly to fuel his family’s business entities.

                At some point in late 2013 russians saw through the scheme and threatened a military coup (as military and national security services were filled with their assets and agents of influence) that lead to Yanukovych doing 180 towards russia but it caused massive protests across the country that were initially ignored by the government altogether. Those protests had USAID NGO presence but it was ineffective clownshow with little substance mostly done for cameras. They weren’t involved in decision making of anything and their presence remained media-centric throughout the latter stages of the protest.

                The initial wave started to simmer down by late November but due to police violently attacking students at the Independence Square in the middle of the night it snowballed into a giant protest later known as Euromaidan.

                The united parliamentary opposition backed by disgruntled business elites (future president Petro Poroschenko was one of them actually) leveraged the protests and provided it with infrastructure and resourcesall while trying to reason with Yanukovych behind closed doors who by then was still somewhat in control of police and military but russians insisted on more violent response to quell the protests and potentially kickstart a civil war that would be a nice opportunity for them to swoop in and take over amidst chaos.

                While Yanukovych, business elites and the parliamentary opposition negotiated - it was a stalemate on the streets that lasted until January 16 when the parliament majority voted the Dictatorship Laws that outlawed any form of civil disobedience. That caused another escalation of protests and massive surge in police violence - the infamous wall of fire at Hruschevsky Street happened right after that. This led to another attempt to find compromise among business elites, parliamentary opposition and the president - for a while it seemed like an agreement was reached only for the aforementioned violent response taking place February 18-20. That was supposed to be a start of civil war but further escalation was avoided when the Agreement on the Settlement of the Political Crisis was finally signed after a bloody fiery siege of Independence Square. The agreement intended to restore previous version of Constitution switching from Presidentially-parliamental republic back to parliamentary-presidential republic and doing Presidential elections to clear the air.

                However, Yanukovych fled immediately after that more or less exposing himself as decommissioned russian asset. He left the parliament to pick up the pieces and maintain the continuity of governance. Head of parliament became acting President, the new elections were scheduled for late May and the new Cabinet of Ministers was elected to clean up the mess in the meantime.

                Yanukovych didn’t have to flee - he just brokered a deal to make Maidan go away and he could weather the election cycle but this agreement turned out to be a diversion for russian Plan B - also known as russian Spring that kicked off a week later with strange things happening in Crimea. russians needed to spark a civil war to destabilize the situation, discredit the government and ease their way in by pretending to restore order. A day later Yanukovych did a press conference during which he asked russia for military intervention because “things got out of hand” even though he just signed a solution to all his problems and could’ve walked relatively scott free. But he did what he was told to - and he did that while crushing a pencil in his hands under obvious duress. Dude decided to outplay the devil, lost everything and became his bitch.

                Meanwhile in Crimea - unmarked russian military started the takeover on Feb 27th that culminated with the takeover of the Crimean parliament building and mock referendum later in March that had very timid reaction from the international community. And then a wave of state institution takeovers attempts across Donetsk, Luhansk, Kharkiv, Dnipro and Odessa by armed people who claimed to be separatists but later were identified as russian nationals. This situation kicked off what was initially called the Anti-Terrorist Operation in Donbas. Kharkiv takeover ended with police storming the building and arresting the perpetrators, Odessa takeover ended in horrible tragedy when the Trade Union House burned down in early May 2014.

                The military skirmishes in Donbas started to escalate further during June while international community was deeply concerned and worried. The dominant narrative back then was that this whole thing was deeply ambiguous and it is unclear who to blame. Except every single decision maker on the “separatist” side was oddly from russia with direct connection to the military or secret service but who cares about that. Then in July russians shot down MH17 and then finally led to some reaction and kicked off the first round of sanctions against russia. Then the Ilovaisk siege happened the aftermath of which led to what eventually became Minsk Protocol which was a russian attempt to appease international community and avoid harsher economic sanctions and possible military help to Ukraine and also dig in on Donbas and continue their charade.

                There’s more but that’s the gist of it.

        • _cryptagion [he/him]@anarchist.nexusOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          6 days ago

          That wasn’t voting, you dipshit, they revolted and overthrew the government.

          If you think the defacto Russian-appointed ruler fleeing for his life is a normal election, then you have to be the biggest idiot I’ve met.

          • BilSabab@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            6 days ago

            it is way more complicated than that but it is not the place to argue about that. the gist of it is that the continuity of government remained intact. the president fled, the parliament remained and took over with the head of parliament being the acting president until proper elections, the ministers got reappointed and got back to work and after things settled the elections took place and they were internationally recognized as democratic.

              • BilSabab@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                6 days ago

                it is more complicated because this conversation leaves out a ton of historical context in favor of oversimplified definitions.

    • Grapho@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      6 days ago

      Do y’all not have any context dependent cues to start ranting about the RuZZian orcs or whatever the fuck? It must be unbearable to know you irl jfc

  • DarkSideOfTheMoon@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    6 days ago

    We still have midterms, if people go e then reason we will not have it. Be careful because I put they will put agitators inside to push their narrative.

  • teslasaur@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    edit-2
    6 days ago

    This is definitely the idea of someone that voted for a third party in a “first past the post” system.

    For those that are unaware. In a first past the post system, the winner gets 100% of the power. This means that if you don’t vote, or vote for a third party that doesn’t win, you are mathematically voting for the eventual winner

    Congratulations for voting Trump in.