• Bloomcole@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 day ago

    I do not care for your explanation.
    The politically illiterate US population uses every term and definition wrong.
    Also they are relative and progressive there means nothing since the overton window is so narrow it only goes from fascist to center-right.
    You can say or claim what you want, all I’ve heard from so-called US ‘liberals’ was nearly as horrible and right-wing as the rest.
    Only different in their pet peeves like LGTB, etc…

    • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      11 hours ago

      What are you trying to argue? Non-liberals will demand liberty from intrusive imposition of age verification? What do we call these advocates for social liberty? With which major US political ideology do they belong if they had to choose?

      The politically illiterate US population uses every term and definition wrong.

      You must be speaking of yourself: now you’re disagreeing with political scientists & historians. The linked article cites definitions & references from both.

      The political spectrum article

      Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on “ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism” while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on “notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism”.

      Political scientists and other analysts usually regard the left as including anarchists, communists, socialists, democratic socialists, social democrats, left-libertarians, progressives, and social liberals.

      reaffirms political scientists consider progressives & social liberals on the left.

      Also they are relative

      Not entirely: words still mean things.

      Progressivism: ideology

      that seeks to advance the human condition through social reform.

      Social liberalism:

      variety of liberalism that endorses social justice, social services, a mixed economy, and the expansion of civil and political rights

      social liberalism places greater emphasis on the role of government in addressing social inequalities and ensuring public welfare

      So back to modern liberalism in the US: what has it endorsed & pursued?

      The modern liberal philosophy strongly endorses public spending on programs such as education, health care, and welfare.

      What are these if not social reforms to advance the human condition (ie, progressive policies)?

      It combines ideas of cultural liberalism, social liberalism, progressivism, civil liberty and social equality with support for social justice and a mixed economy

      Important social issues during the 21st century include social justice, economic inequality (wealth and income), voting rights for minorities, affirmative action, reproductive and other women’s rights, support for LGBT rights, and immigration reform.

      What is the support for mixed economy & these issues if not the definition of social liberalism?

      Are you claiming any of that has much to do with “notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism” that characterize the right? They seem to have an awful lot more to do with “ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism” that characterize the left.

      It’s time to face reality & admit the facts don’t support you.

      all I’ve heard from so-called US ‘liberals’ was nearly as horrible and right-wing as the rest

      Then maybe you don’t know many liberals.

      overton window is so narrow it only goes from fascist to center-right

      Regardless of what you think, people in the libertarian left of the political map exist in the US, and there are only 2 major ideologies there to choose from.

      Modern liberalism is one of two major political ideologies in the United States, with the other being conservatism.

      They’re not throwing their lot in with conservatism. That really narrows down the possibilities.

    • Log in | Sign up@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 day ago

      I think “liberal” is the opposite of “authoritarian” and “left” is the opposite of “right”. America has never really done left wing and the liberals are more lib centre than lib left, whilst the conservatives are auth right. American “centrists” are loony right wing by European standards. Tankies are auth left, so find liberals annoyingly non-left and annoyingly non-auth, which is why they have so much to say against dems, whilst the gop is to a tankie at least auth even if they’re annoyingly right wing.

      I will never understand why tankies act like the last 50 years of Russian history including the complete overthrow of communism never happened. It’s like they kept the worst bits of the soviet approach, threw out all the good bits and added the worst excesses of uncontrolled capitalism instead.

      As a lib left, I find much to disagree with in all those places, but most strongly with the auth right like trump, putin and their chums.

      I’m very very disappointed with UK Labour trying to fix the housing crisis by deregulating to “free up” the housing industry to remove the housing shortage. It’s like trying to fix an active alcoholic by giving them the keys to the liquor cabinet. You’ll only fix the housing crisis with a massive program of council house building. Anything else is papering over the cracks. You’ll only fix the NHS by bringing social care under the same funding roof and investing massively.

      China gets some things right like massive public investment and very long term planning, but other things wrong like authoritarianism. I’m amused that Trump thought he could outsmart a civilization that’s been doing diplomacy for thousands of years and has largely (but definitely not exclusively) been a meriticracy for a very long time.

      Some of the Scandinavian democracies have been the best run countries for a long long time.

      Anyway, I’m sure you’ll find plenty to hate on there.

        • Log in | Sign up@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          9 hours ago

          I think if you had read the rest of what I wrote you might have spotted a European.

          By where do you stand over Russia? Do you think it’s communist? I don’t think it’s been communist since at least Gorbachev, and it’s currently an oligarchy which is about as far removed from communism as you can get, but what’s your understanding?

          • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 hours ago

            obviously not communist.
            But by far the lesser evil compared to the US fascists, and their fascist proxy, supported by their semi-fascist EU vassals.
            The enemy of my enemy.
            The Russia is imperialist and scaremongering about them planning to attack a NATO state is laughable.
            It is the western oligarchs and imperialists that are to blame, luckily for the world it has marvelously backfired.

            • Log in | Sign up@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              7 hours ago

              Thanks for explaining your position.

              I think we can agree to dislike the oligarchs generally and the power they wield over too much of the planet.

              • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                5 hours ago

                While that is a generic answer you are correct.
                You being from the UK, where people are massively misinformed and propagandised on the level of their big brother USSA, I shouldn’t blame you for having terribly wrong opinions on Russia, China or whatever. With the same pseudo -left Kid Starver who is as right-wing as the US fascist-lite Dems.
                And the BBC regime mouthpieces spouting horrible genocider and imperialist garbage 24/7.