I gladly accept the fossil label, but there’s no contrarian sentiment behind it … I just never felt any pain staying with X11.
Also, the window manager I use is developed by a friend who lives 10min away and texts me every time he has an update, and I love it … doesn’t work on Wayland, though …
Did you try it that with Gnome? I heard that some input methods suffered with the wayland transition because mutter makes some weird choices. From my personal experience, libinput works great with a wacom tablet, so I’m assuming you ran into an issue with a specific DE.
Keep angrily gaslighting. Surely you’ll EVENTUALLY shame veterans who have been using Linux productively for decades into joining the cult of security over function.
You come into MY home, into MY workflow, take features away from me that have been there ignoring all protests, then have the sheer unmitigated GALL to mock me when I dare to complain?
Noones going into your home and taking features away from you, they just decided they don’t want to be putting a ton of effort into something 2 people care about.
The beauty of FOSS is devs are free to make these decisions just like you’re free to develop what you need.
I WILL continue to use Xorg. My workflow requires it. If that means I have to use an unmaintained window manager forever, so be it.
None of this would be an issue if the Wayland developers weren’t so pigheaded that they insist upon forcing their pure, untainted design philosophy onto the project rather than building an inclusive model that allows for backwards compatibility with the system it’s meant to replace.
building an inclusive model that allows for backwards compatibility with the system it’s meant to replace.
That’s honestly a terrible approach and defeats the porpoises. For example, screen recording. You can’t be “backwards compatible” (aka any app can record at any time) and have them ask for permission (the honestly better way to go).
Bear in mind, Wayland devs didn’t force anything. They offered an alternative to X and the distros chose that after evaluating pros and cons.
Pick a distro that aligns with your needs like we all do.
I will concede that not every obscure feature has been kept but the vast majority of users are now better served by wayland compositors. I have no idea what you mean by “project”, but if they had no concerns for backwards compatibility, then XWayland wouldn’t exist.
Stopping work on X11 because it’s been an unmaintainable mess for ages doesn’t really count as “forcing” anything upon anyone. I won’t pretend that Wayland protocol development hasn’t seen plenty of disagreements, but it is still a collaborative process.
Your disagreements seem fairly vague to me and I can’t help but think that the “pigheaded” label is somewhat ironic, after your first paragraph.
The “forcing” was in making Wayland shit, rather than replacing it with something with at least the same capabilities as X11 (even if they are now guarded by granular permissions).
I am not better served. I am now in the quite new position where I’d have to rewrite some of my own personal software if i simply just decided to change DE
see that’s the problem. Everyone’s first response is that it’s a niche problem. For every complaint. So what? It’s a new problem is the point, however niche.
Btw, this is not a niche problem. Some big projects have explicitly said they have had this very problem
ugh I wish I could but my Laptop set up says “no, you can’t.” discrete Nividia GPU with onboard AMD GPU and gaming on x11 is a no go for me. So my only choice is wayland :/
Linux gives users the freedom to keep using x11 :p
They are even free to thanklessly maintain X11 for all the other contrarian fossils, because the developers sure aren’t doing it anymore.
I gladly accept the fossil label, but there’s no contrarian sentiment behind it … I just never felt any pain staying with X11.
Also, the window manager I use is developed by a friend who lives 10min away and texts me every time he has an update, and I love it … doesn’t work on Wayland, though …
Wayland doesn’t work for me, I rely on a tablet in lieu of a mouse and under Wayland it’s unusable. I tried hard
Under an X session it behaves flawlessly
Did you try it that with Gnome? I heard that some input methods suffered with the wayland transition because mutter makes some weird choices. From my personal experience, libinput works great with a wacom tablet, so I’m assuming you ran into an issue with a specific DE.
To be fair… XLibre is doing that.
badly though from what i hear.
Keep angrily gaslighting. Surely you’ll EVENTUALLY shame veterans who have been using Linux productively for decades into joining the cult of security over function.
You come into MY home, into MY workflow, take features away from me that have been there ignoring all protests, then have the sheer unmitigated GALL to mock me when I dare to complain?
Noones going into your home and taking features away from you, they just decided they don’t want to be putting a ton of effort into something 2 people care about.
The beauty of FOSS is devs are free to make these decisions just like you’re free to develop what you need.
Dude, I am using Linux since 25 years.
Just because you like it so much does not mean that anybody will maintain Xorg for you. Feel free to do it yourself.
I chose Wayland. Not because security, but because I have a primary HDR ultrawide and an old secondary monitor.
Running variable refreshrate does not work with this configuration on Xorg.
HDR does not exist in Xorg.
And never will be.
Just keep in complaining just because someone points out that Xorg is dead.
Xorg is dead! That is not gaslighting, this is a fact
I WILL continue to use Xorg. My workflow requires it. If that means I have to use an unmaintained window manager forever, so be it.
None of this would be an issue if the Wayland developers weren’t so pigheaded that they insist upon forcing their pure, untainted design philosophy onto the project rather than building an inclusive model that allows for backwards compatibility with the system it’s meant to replace.
You do realise that the Wayland devs are the X11 devs, right? They were sick of X11 and started developing a new one.
That’s honestly a terrible approach and defeats the porpoises. For example, screen recording. You can’t be “backwards compatible” (aka any app can record at any time) and have them ask for permission (the honestly better way to go).
Bear in mind, Wayland devs didn’t force anything. They offered an alternative to X and the distros chose that after evaluating pros and cons.
Pick a distro that aligns with your needs like we all do.
I will concede that not every obscure feature has been kept but the vast majority of users are now better served by wayland compositors. I have no idea what you mean by “project”, but if they had no concerns for backwards compatibility, then XWayland wouldn’t exist.
Stopping work on X11 because it’s been an unmaintainable mess for ages doesn’t really count as “forcing” anything upon anyone. I won’t pretend that Wayland protocol development hasn’t seen plenty of disagreements, but it is still a collaborative process.
Your disagreements seem fairly vague to me and I can’t help but think that the “pigheaded” label is somewhat ironic, after your first paragraph.
There is currently one major Usecase that does not work yet with Wayland. Multiwindow positioning through the application.
In science, and some stuff like KICaf or Gimp use this feature excessively. And as someones that relies on KiCad, it is a fucking pain.
But, solutions are being discussed and implementations will follow
The “forcing” was in making Wayland shit, rather than replacing it with something with at least the same capabilities as X11 (even if they are now guarded by granular permissions).
I am not better served. I am now in the quite new position where I’d have to rewrite some of my own personal software if i simply just decided to change DE
That sounds like a fairly niche problem to have.
see that’s the problem. Everyone’s first response is that it’s a niche problem. For every complaint. So what? It’s a new problem is the point, however niche.
Btw, this is not a niche problem. Some big projects have explicitly said they have had this very problem
i’m just curious what is the feature you are using in xorg you can’t replicate in wayland?
Not who you asked, but:
sxkhd: no global hotkey daemons allowed except the compositor
i3wm inside of xfce/plasma: every compositor is implemenyed as a monolithic DE, fuck modularity
I still switched to Wayland, but can’t be bothered to customise a new wm
Can you use Sway instead of i3wm in plasma?
No
Activity watch
Then, build your own replacement! If it is do dinpley, fork Wayland, add what you need.
Removed by mod
This is the way…
ugh I wish I could but my Laptop set up says “no, you can’t.” discrete Nividia GPU with onboard AMD GPU and gaming on x11 is a no go for me. So my only choice is wayland :/
I once heard about someone accidentally pouring tea from a teapot into a mug with instant coffee in it rather than hot water.
Your laptop has the GPU equivalent of that drink.
ugh I know. In hindsight I would have never bought it.
I wonder if we’ll find anything to replace it some day, it’s not a good protocol.
Maybe someday someone will develop a better replacement, but so far no one has.