Wherever there is great property there is great inequality. For one very rich man there must be at least five hundred poor, and the affluence of the few supposes the indigence of the many. The affluence of the rich excites the indignation of the poor, who are often both driven by want, and prompted by envy, to invade his possessions.
~Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Because you need poor desperate people to sell their labor for less than it’s worth, so a rich guy can take this surplus (difference between value produced and wage given) and use that money to buy even more raw materials and labor to repeat the cycle but bigger.
And then you get debt, what you can give to the less fortunate so you can demand they pay back more so you create new desperate people that sell their labor.
That makes it sound like it’s just a passive side-effective and not a critical tool in the elite’s arsenal in keeping the working class subjugated by holding the promise of suffering over our heads if we choose not to spend a third of our lives generating wealth for them.
Nice whataboutism there. But as you seem to be under the illusion that these countries are not capitalist (and presumably therefore communist, considering the countries you chose and the usual dogma that comes with them) let’s have a look.
First, let’s define communism. Luckily the world wide web has done that already for us.
Communism (from Latin communis ‘common, universal’)[1][2] is a political and economic ideology whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered on common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products in society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society entails the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state.[7][8][9]
The legacy of the USSR remains a controversial topic. The socio-economic nature of communist states such as the USSR, especially under Stalin, has also been much debated, varyingly being labelled a form of bureaucratic collectivism, state capitalism, state socialism, or a totally unique mode of production.[260]
some leftists regard the USSR as an example of state capitalism
Maoists also have a mixed opinion on the USSR, viewing it negatively during the Sino-Soviet Split and denouncing it as revisionist and reverted to capitalism.
Capitalism is a shit system for vast swathes of the population and results in poverty, exploitation, and death.
Is communism the answer? I don’t know, it’s never truly managed to take off anywhere without either being corrupted from within or attacked from without. But capitalism most certainly needs to go in the bin.
By the way, congratulations on finally getting Wi-Fi on your planet.
The “Lucy” argument isn’t as compelling as some tankies seem to think. We’ve had plenty of communist regimes. They’re all abominable. No good holding the football out and saying “but this time it’s real communism”. Communism is rancid because people are rancid.
The USSR was socialist. Public ownership was the principle aspect of the economy, and society was run by the working class. It was not yet communist, but it was certainly socialist. The PRC is also an example of socialism, public ownership is also the principle aspect of the economy, same as the DPRK. The extent to which markets play a role varies greatly in these countries, but markets are not synonymous with capitalism, and socialism is not defined by the absence of private property just as capitalism is not defined by the absence of public property.
I suggest you avoid using wikipedia if you’re trying to get a Marxist perspective on existing socialist states past and present. They aren’t written by Marxists but by anyone, and opinions presented by the authors should not be confused for Marxist analysis. If anything, they have an overwhelmingly liberal bias, and should be aconowledged as such.
Capitalism, the system where we allow poverty to exist
So do you want to take away freedom to starve and die of hunger
I think we do more than allow it.
Indeed we do
Why, again?
You trying to get off or something?
Yeah usually but that’s on another screen. Why do you ask?
$
And that’s what exactly?
Wherever there is great property there is great inequality. For one very rich man there must be at least five hundred poor, and the affluence of the few supposes the indigence of the many. The affluence of the rich excites the indignation of the poor, who are often both driven by want, and prompted by envy, to invade his possessions.
~Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Okay so now we’re right back to ‘why?’.
Because of sea lions.
Because you need poor desperate people to sell their labor for less than it’s worth, so a rich guy can take this surplus (difference between value produced and wage given) and use that money to buy even more raw materials and labor to repeat the cycle but bigger.
And then you get debt, what you can give to the less fortunate so you can demand they pay back more so you create new desperate people that sell their labor.
There is apparently always someone who values their own wealth over any benefit of others. So, they exploit others to enrich themselves.
It’s just selfishness all the way down.
The others, have little wealth of their own, so have little power to resist the exploiter.
So, we keep doing this because of kayfabe and terrorism?
That makes it sound like it’s just a passive side-effective and not a critical tool in the elite’s arsenal in keeping the working class subjugated by holding the promise of suffering over our heads if we choose not to spend a third of our lives generating wealth for them.
It wasn’t my intentions to make it sound like that and hoped that it would come across as you stated it
There was rampant poverty in the USSR too. As there is in China. They don’t seem too winning in N Korea either.
Nice whataboutism there. But as you seem to be under the illusion that these countries are not capitalist (and presumably therefore communist, considering the countries you chose and the usual dogma that comes with them) let’s have a look.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
First, let’s define communism. Luckily the world wide web has done that already for us.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union#Legacy
So the USSR was not communist, but rather somewhere between capitalist and its own thing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China#Economy
Not communist by any stretch of the imagination.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea
Not communist.
Capitalism is a shit system for vast swathes of the population and results in poverty, exploitation, and death.
Is communism the answer? I don’t know, it’s never truly managed to take off anywhere without either being corrupted from within or attacked from without. But capitalism most certainly needs to go in the bin.
The Soviet Union was capitalist. Right-o.
By the way, congratulations on finally getting Wi-Fi on your planet.
The “Lucy” argument isn’t as compelling as some tankies seem to think. We’ve had plenty of communist regimes. They’re all abominable. No good holding the football out and saying “but this time it’s real communism”. Communism is rancid because people are rancid.
The USSR was socialist. Public ownership was the principle aspect of the economy, and society was run by the working class. It was not yet communist, but it was certainly socialist. The PRC is also an example of socialism, public ownership is also the principle aspect of the economy, same as the DPRK. The extent to which markets play a role varies greatly in these countries, but markets are not synonymous with capitalism, and socialism is not defined by the absence of private property just as capitalism is not defined by the absence of public property.
I suggest you avoid using wikipedia if you’re trying to get a Marxist perspective on existing socialist states past and present. They aren’t written by Marxists but by anyone, and opinions presented by the authors should not be confused for Marxist analysis. If anything, they have an overwhelmingly liberal bias, and should be aconowledged as such.
They are still capitalist societies