Inb4 muh guns good tho, find your own shower this one’s mine >:)
The civilised world has kept that knowledge since.
Same in the “wild West”, it didn’t take long before they banned guns in town.
If you could reason with gun-brains, they would cease to exist.
Very strange how giving people a deadly weapon makes them unreasonable. Must be government overreach or something idk
Haha yeah, rome, the famously peaceful and stable state that was dominated by a cruel slave owning elite. That is where we should be taking our lessons from.
Well Americans aren’t taking lessons from the rest of the democratised world right now so I thought they might relate better with a culture more akin to their own.
It would seem we are
We are though, the people in power idolize the Romans to a disturbing degree.
Even saluting them in their own roman way.
Always have been.
They didn’t ban weapons. They banned generals leading independent armies.
Roman military was, at that time at least, privatised. The generals were the elites and the rich who would often pay for their own armies. When Caesar for example wanted to go campaigning in Gaul, he’d pay for a lot of the cost or of his own pocket. This resulted in armies that were generally more loyal to their general than to Rome.
That could naturally be a problem, so to prevent a general from getting ideas, the law mandated that they would have to disband their armies before crossing into Italy proper (or at least leaving their army encamped outside the territory)
That point was traditionally just before the army would cross the Rubicon river, hence the phrase “crossing the Rubicon” denoting a kind of “red line” or “point of no return”.
When Caesar made the decision to March on Rome and incite a civil war, his army “crossed the Rubicon”.
I stand corrected. Learn something new every day. Thanks.
edit: I don’t know why you are getting downvotes. You corrected me with a proper source. and I stood corrected. That’s the proper civilized way of doing things.
I’m stun locked this has never worked for me before, sorry for being a bit of a sassy bitch
That was sassy? I thought it was hilarious.
I thought you had actually taken the time to look at my comment history, discovered that I majored in Near Eastern Classical Archaeology and was making a riff on that. I thought it was great!
Hahaha I had no idea lol, my meme truly transcended my original vision
Now kiss ;)
(But seriously, it’s nice to see people being awesome online.)
Haven’t brushed my teeth yet today. I’m gonna have to decline.
But it was possible to sneak in daggers (the proverbial weapon for political violence; see sicarius). Since Julius Caesar’s assassination occurred outside this boundary, the senatorial conspirators could not be charged with sacrilege for carrying weapons inside the sacred city.
Seems banning weapons didn’t work back then. Gee, it surely wouldn’t happen today either. And only some people were charged with the crime while politicians could escape charges of literal murder.
If anything you’ve shown that we’ve done this before and restricting weapons only allows certain people to have weapons. No thanks, I’ll hold onto my rights before ICE tries to take them.
That is part of why US military members are always being moved around and transferred to different units. The US does not want independent militaries all over the place.
Depending on the time we are speaking of there were bans against citizens openly carrying swords or daggers within the boundaries of Rome. Though there were some exceptions to the law when it came to certain bodyguards or elites. A lot of people carried clubs or makeshift blunt force weapons as personal protection.
If you really pissed off the citizens the traditional weapon of choice were tiles thrown from the tops of roofs.
Admittedly, if I had slaves, I think I’d be pretty worried about weapons just lying around…
Well we all know that exploited workers having weapons is a clear and simple path to liberation…
Nearly every liberation to happen in the past 200 years have used guns. It’s kind of a thing. Why do you think every dictatorship starts removing guns from people? Look up German gun laws from 1938 sometime.
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.”
-Karl Marx
All means that have been used for gun control and disarmament in the USA has been steeped in racism. Most neo-liberal anti-gun people don’t seem to acknowledge this fact like with the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act. Nor how the police are almost guaranteed to kill a black person when they’re armed in some capacity even if they are complying. Not like the origins of the police were systematic racism as well as classism. Nope, not at all.
Oh no, the workers have weapons! Anyways…
Marx died shortly after front-loaded muskets were replaced by the earliest rifles. You know, guns so terrible, a worker and trained soldier were somewhat matched.
From what I’ve heard, small arms were plenty available to civilians during the siege of Sarajevo. Yet they were absolutely worthless because it turns out modern soldiers are several orders of magnitude better equipped and deadly.
Americans will look you dead in the eyes and say “the second amendment empowers us to protect ourselves from tyranny and that’s why today America is the freest and safest country in the world” with a straight face.
My Medicare card does more to protect me than every gun in the US does to protect a single American. Then these “under no pretext” brainlets come in as if the literal poster child for capitalism wasn’t built on that philosophy. Guns don’t overthrow governments, organised groups do. Guns kill people.
The “overthrow government” thing aside, as an Asian American, Rooftop Koreans are what we need to protect against ourselves because I know when shit goes down, the law enforcement will not protect us. We need a well-regulated militia, fuck the police.
Last I checked, the state would just beat into submission people who weren’t armed advocating for their rights. I believe even Martin Luther King Jr. himself understood that you would need the threat of violence to push for moderates to change. Not that he’d do it himself, but the carrot and stick principle. Also had some very interesting words on white moderates and capitalism. I’m sure he was very popular back then https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-martin-luther-king-had-75-percent-disapproval-rating-year-he-died-180968664/
Last I checked people in the US have been, and currently are being, beaten into submission and so clearly having guns isn’t stopping that from happening.
You are literally doing the "Americans will look you dead in the eyes and say “the second amendment empowers us to protect ourselves from tyranny and that’s why today America is the freest and safest country in the world” with a straight face. " thing that I just mentioned! I couldn’t script something this damning. Are you stupid??
Guns in civilian hands don’t overthrow the government.
And neither do organised groups of civilians.
The military does, when they refuse orders to shoot on civilians and turn on the government.
Or if it’s an occupying force, when the necessary military becomes more expensive than the value you can extract out of the country.
Either way, protests and strikes by the people are necessary to overthrough the government, but not sufficient.
If the government is willing to use the military against the population, and the military is willing to do so, there’s not much even millions of people can do.One might even call the military an organised group
Not all slaves were mistreated in the way the modern world mistreats it’s laborers.
It wasn’t all sunshine and roses for sure and rights were limited, but that is true for most people in the ancient world.
Not all slaves were mistreated in the way the modern world mistreats it’s laborers.
Slavery simply existing is mistreatment enough
I don’t think you’d want to change places with a Roman slave. The vast majority of people in modern times have it much better, even if they live in poverty.
This is a reductive thought process which only serves the purpose of fostering complacency within the most exploited. “Starving kids in Africa” type argument
I wasn’t in any way implying that we should be complacent about the current state of affairs in the world. But the commonly made claims about how paleolithic hunter gatherers/Roman slaves/mediaeval peasants had a better life than we have today are just ill informed.
Fair enough
Yes. But the poorest of our poor have it much worse. Didn’t claim I yearned to be a teacher slave.
We didn’t allow guns in the towns and cities of the “old west.” You had to check your gun with the sheriff at the edge of town
What?
How did they not have weapons in cities? If you can have a cleaver or boning knife then a gladius or dagger isn’t much different?
You sure youre not talking about armies within the city limits?
This reads as someone who say an AI overview over the subject and didn’t bother to read actual articles stating this was armies, not civilians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomerium
“Weapons were prohibited inside the pomerium”
It applied to everyone
But it was possible to sneak in daggers (the proverbial weapon for political violence; see sicarius). Since Julius Caesar’s assassination occurred outside this boundary, the senatorial conspirators could not be charged with sacrilege for carrying weapons inside the sacred city.
Seems banning weapons didn’t work back then. Gee, it surely wouldn’t happen today either. And only some people were charged with the crime while politicians could escape charges of literal murder.
If anything you’ve shown that we’ve done this before and restricting weapons only allows certain people to have weapons. No thanks, I’ll hold onto my rights before ICE tries to take them.
Yup, not as good of an argument as they think it is. They seem to miss the point you made and the other that even the military and state forces weren’t allowed to be armed either within the Pomerium. All I hear of gun control advocates are allowing the state to continue having arms but not individuals. Sounds vaguely authoritarian to me. As well I’m not sure I’d consider Rome of all historical places one of actual enlightenment.
Wow they broke the rules, snuck daggers in and political violence skyrocketed. Surely there is a lesson to be learned here… Nah guns good, always have been.
Not good. Just a form of power, and they work sometimes, and not others.
Yeah check the wiki for Pomerium.
Obviously almost anything can be used as an improvised weapon but they will never be as effective as weapons designed with the specific purpose of killing people. There is a huge difference between a cleaver and a gladius that’s why the Romans didn’t arm their soldiers with kitchenware.
From my cold dead hands
That is currently, literally, what is happening to Americans.
You mean letting the poor carry…the nobles still could and had bodyguards that carried as well.
Anti-2a people lick the same boot as the maga chodes…
That’s the neo-liberal for you. When progress is on the rise, they coddle up with fascism to keep it down. Madani is a perfect example. The Democrat establishment did all it legally could to stop him winning, they’d rather have had the right win than someone actually on the left promising meaningful change. Very telling.
It happened yes, but the law was for no one to and roman republic politics ran smoothest when it was enforced.
No that was the norm. Nobles and high class people had arms and the poor and working class was unarmed. It was that way to keep them from revolting
Damn with a claim like that you’ve got a primary source right there don’t you?
Good to know you’re not armed.
Did you even read an article on the subject or just AI Overviewed it and thought it true?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomerium
“Weapons were prohibited inside the pomerium.”
Must be real embarrassing being you right now
Nope, because I don’t have an over inflated ego like you do. :) Alright, you’re right, they couldn’t have weapons legally. Neither could military leaders, political leaders, or anyone else. Most gun control debates are about getting it out of the hands of individuals but allowing the state to continue having it. Because it recognizes the state being armed and the civilian not was serious miss match of power. I don’t hear anything from gun control advocates about disarming all federal and military forces inside the borders of the united states. As well this only included cities and other religiously restricted areas, it didn’t ban them EVERYWHERE. So weapons in rural areas where they’d have to fend off wild life for protecting their crops or animals were still a thing. Not exactly a good anti-gun argument.
Now you’re just making up your own arguments to better suit the mindset you’ve already decided on, how well exactly did that work for you last time you did that? You could look at gun violence statistics for the US and other developed countries. You could look at the change in gun violence that happened in countries when they banned guns. You could do so much to learn yet you insist on creating your own fantasies as to why the world must be the way you perceive it should be. Straight up the mental gymnastics meme. What lie will you tell yourself next so not to go through the mental anguish of having believed a falsehood.
I wish I had never replied to this piece of BLANK member’s post! I am going to delete my posts, I do not recommend anyone to do reply to his posts, I warned you.
deleted by creator
What?
He’s speaking the language of the gods
“What are trying to say with the rest?” Meaning outside the title?
You conveniently BS your way from the fact that it not understandable, by taking of my use of The English language? You got love people on The Internet!
You’re so right I do love people on the Internet 😭😭
“The title is so true, & their” Romans ”super empire violently crashed & everyone” social-political scientist-Moderate-Left Political Talkers-The Political Left neighbors next door “compares” that (sorry, that was my mistake) “to where” we (sorry, that was my mistake) “are headed, with being the falling apart Capital of This Capitalist World.” The USA.
Now, should be understandable, to anyone, but if it is not, than it is you, not me.
