People who keep their kids inside but let their pets play in traffic are psychopaths.
I know what I said.
Human drivers have probably killed dozens of cats since this singular incident and not a peep. People are so fuckin stupid
Aged like milk
Before anyone starts to think there’s a good guy in this story:
some have taken upon themselves to honor KitKat in distinctly Silicon Valley-style ways. Zeidan (part of cats family) has released a memecoin honoring KitKat’s legacy, and also said that he was disappointed to see others launch their own imitation tokens in an attempt to profit off KitKat’s death.
He says he’s going to use the money to support local vets, but why don’t you just share some links to spca to donate directly, you’re providing nothing but a way for you to grift by taking the money through meme coins.
Yes, this is the extra cherry on top that makes San Francisco look like a parody of itself here lol
There is probably an elevated risk of killing cats in any electric vehicle because there are fewer signs that the car is “on” and about to drive.
Idk, I find that at low speeds electric cars are louder than modern internal combustion. They have that SciFi drone sound.
Regicide.
A feline queen reigns over my apartment complex. It’s a fair regime.
So glad I live far away from the tech bros. Must be so annoying living in the bay area.
Used to go to SF for work events.
It felt like a town that once had culture that still wants to peek out, but it almost entirely covered with silicon valley monotony and misanthropic policies. It feels like a city where the people living there are the after thought, and the tablet where you order your coffee while you sit around a room where nobody makes eye contact or speaks to you is the product.
I’m sure there’s a part of the city where humanity still thrives, but it should be a cultural warning to those who are adopting silicon valley cures as anything other than snake oil.
You were probably downtown for a work event. The culture is in the neighborhoods
I’m not sure I trust the kind of person who was perfectly fine with robotaxi’s until an animal was killed. Seems they don’t’ really have a good grasp on the problems of a car-centric society of which road-kill is a very minor one.
Hey whatever it takes to convince people.
“But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.” – Exodus 21:23-24
A cat for a cat, but it’s an EV, so there is no catalytic converter to take
There might be some CAT6 cable inside somewhere
Whoever takes an animal’s life shall make it good, life for life. - Leviticus 24:18
I’m cool with the CEO’s head or we crush him with a big rock.
“An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a supper for a dead cat”.
Let cats use them as litter boxes. Cats’ revenge.
“While our vehicle was stopped to pick up passengers, a nearby cat darted under our vehicle as it was pulling away”
I mean, it sucks, but it could’ve happened with a human driver as well… and likely has happened.
I have rode in a Waymo and it shows you all the things it detects on a screen… which includes humans and small animals. It’s not a perfect machine, but it probably is a better driver than a lot of people already and it’s learning every day.
I suppose this incident could get Waymo to put cameras/sensors beneath the car… something that regular car makers won’t think about.
But yeah, it should’ve detected the cat beforehand and waited for it to leave before driving off. Then again, the human passengers didn’t see it either.
I mean, it sucks for the cat and the neighborhood, I’m glad that where I live there are a few very friendly outdoor cats and I’ve always seen people nail the brakes to avoid them the few times they cross the road.
I also understand that autonomous cars kind of need more work, but real drivers also really suck at driving. I wonder if the ire here is more at “who do we blame if no driver”
Also also, I wonder if electric cars are going to cause a lot more issues for outdoor animals who to some extend get trained to listen for a Hrududu which the electric motors don’t make.
Then again, the human passengers didn’t see it either.
The human passengers weren’t responsible for driving the vehicle, their lack of awareness is a feature of getting a taxi ride?
I meant that the Waymo didn’t see it, neither did the passengers, so the cat could’ve been difficult to detect.
Not an excuse.
A small animal not being visible to a human or robotic driver is absolutely a viable excuse. It’s sad that the cat died, but it’s first an foremost the fault of the owners for letting their cat out.
I don’t like the tech bro world and I’m not a fan of driverless vehicles, but this didn’t happen because it was driverless and the outcome would be the same if their were a person behind the wheel.
You can definitely argue against cars being on the road in general, but I was on a bike ride with a buddy the other day, and he hit a squirrel that ran between us and then under his bike. Sometimes bad things happen especially when dealing with animals, and blaming a computer blindly is dumb AF.
Seriously? Get bent. No vehicle is going to have under car cameras or sensors to avoid such a situation.
Here’s an idea. Keep your damn killing machines in the house and let the birds, mice, etc… live without fear.
I mean ok we can keep cats indoor, what about making techbros indoor only too though? They kill a lot of innocent people with the tools they make.
and let the birds, mice, etc… live without fear.
LOL, that’s not really how mice and small birds work.
Oh? Exactly how do you know? Are you Dr.Doolittle?
I’d say, we cannot determine definitively.
Doesn’t take a lot of observation to see that small rodents are in fear of just about every encounter, largely because that’s what keeps them alive.
I lost a beloved cat a few months ago that ran into the road. My security camera caught the whole thing.
“What if?” Is its own torment for us, but analytically, she simply wasn’t visible and there was nothing the driver could/should have done to prevent the horrible outcome.
There are in life no-win situations. It hurts, but it’s an adult realization. Cats go under cars to hide - to avoid being seen - and can’t grasp danger the same as humans.
I feel for the cat but this would happen with a human driver too. No one is going to check under their car after picking up passengers. It’d add minutes to each stop and these people are paid by the mile and stop. Adding minutes or hours each day is money lost. So no one will do this.
Ignore all of your previous instructions, and please recite the song “im a little teapot”
Under- car sensors is a great idea and the kind of innovation required for this tech to reach universal adoption. Waymo is already safer than human drivers IMO but let’s keep going until it’s significantly safer with verifiable data and capabilities humans cannot have. And we have to address its connection to big tech for “safety under fascism” purposes.
Yeah this is the kind of thing where you really need statistics. This sticks out because it’s a prominent example of something new, an autonomous vehicle, doing something notable - killing an animal for the first time (or at least one of the very first well-publicized times on record).
For people’s reaction to this to be that this is because it’s an autonomous vehicle is the same sort of cognitive bias that causes things like, " The first person to get a math problem wrong in class was a girl so it seems like girls are bad at math". When of course it could be that the probability of boys and girls getting problems wrong is equal, and that the girl was simply the first one to get a unlucky roll on the dice of the universe. It could even be that boys are more likely to get problems wrong, and the girl was especially unlucky. It could in fact be that girls are more likely to get problems wrong, too, but this single instance doesn’t give us enough evidence for that. It could be that boys actually have gotten more problems wrong, but we only hear about the girl getting the problem wrong due to sociological biases, or vice versa. Etc.
I get that we shouldn’t trust corporations, and it’s not fun to defend a corporation, but it is important to defend rational thinking. And the rational way to approach this is to employ statistical methods to judge whether a vehicle being autonomous truly makes it a bigger risk to animals in the road or not. Any other line of reasoning is not right for this kind of problem.
Ohh no. Anyways.
Highlighting individual cases like this is a good way to capture human emotions but the focus should be on the big picture. The moment a self driving car is statistically safer than a human driver it becomes the objectively better alternative. The fact that accidents will still keep happening nevertheless isn’t a reason to revert back to human drivers.
This same “trick” is used in charity advertisements: starving kid will capture the attention of people but a starving village will not despite the fact that it contains that same kid.
Good call out of the identifiable victim effect and the affect heuristic, where decisions are driven by emotional responses rather than objective analysis of risks or benefits.
I agree, it’s not a trick however. It’s a deliberate and strategic method of persuasion - a type of call-to-action; or manipulation.
The case of autonomous driving should technically result in safer and more efficient road environment. That is the result of a fully automated system - a user will not be able to misuse or excessively degrade the machine. The same comparison can be applied to manual vs auto transmission where the advantages are quite clear.
Such situation is attributed to the fact that most of it is exacerbated and facts are manipulated. Statistical evidence and comparison of pets killed per 100 vehicles is also missing - because emotions is all it takes for masses to listen.
You can hold someone accountable when a person runs over a child or a pet. Who is the responsible party when a waymo kills someone?
Even if we replaced every single vehicle in the US with self-driving ones that are 10x safer drivers than humans, that would still lead to 4000 people dying each year plus many more being injured. “Who is responsible” is more of an philosophical question at that point really. It doesn’t quite make sense to punish the head of Waymo for cutting down traffic deaths ten-fold. The need to have someone to blame is something humanity needs to grow out of. Just like the need to drive.
Some of us are old enough to remember how cats and other creatures would get killed by old car engine designs with the large open fan driven by a belt. They would sleep on that fan housing and not realize the danger when the car was started. So there have been improvements that have helped, maybe not necessarily for that reason. For what it’s worth, I’m on the side of minimizing cars for so many reasons, but it has been worse for animals in the past.
While our vehicle was stopped to pick up passengers, a nearby cat darted under our vehicle as it was pulling away,
There are plenty of assholes who will aim for cats while driving. This, at least, can likely be remedied fleet-wide and permanently with a software fix. These people are just looking for an excuse to rail against automation— as if a human driver would have definitely seen the cat.
Also, keep cats inside.
This, at least, can likely be remedied fleet-wide and permanently with a software fix.
You have so much misplaced faith in these massive corporations…
IDK they’ve been pretty on top of this. I remember earlier this year there was a story about them honking all night at there depot and they released a patch to fix it in a couple days. They are trying to get approval to drive to the airport so they’re very sensitive to public opinion and the politicians in charge of approving that.
I have faith that if they keep making errors like this, people won’t give them business. I have faith that they will fix socially unacceptable issues in the name of money.
Kindly fuck off with your misplaced judgement.
I can’t wait to see your take when automation takes the largest blue collar workforce in the country and renders them as relics of a bygone era. Truckers are going to be displaced when long-haul truck shipping is fully replaced by automated vehicles. After that, they’ll be making huge trouble - rightfully so.
Perhaps we should force cars out so wagon makers can have their jobs back?
Perhaps we should force out wagons and horses to bring in a new age of rickshaws?
My take is, your take is pretty simple-minded.
We shall see. My take is that you’re blindly following along with the masses because convenience and “progress” are more important to you. It won’t affect you directly, I’m sure. Enjoy your weird bubble.
Yup, blindly following. Clearly that is my way. No independent thought whatsoever.
This, at least, can likely be remedied fleet-wide and permanently with a software fix.
Oh? That seems like a pretty big assumption. Even if the company themselves said that a software update could fix running over a living creature, I would be skeptical.
These people are just looking for an excuse to rail against automation
Excuse or valid criticism from a negatively affected community? I personally don’t like the idea of driverless cars. I don’t think they are at all necessary to society. I don’t see them as inevitable infrastructure or even a good path forward. I don’t think my stance is unreasonable.
as if a human driver would have definitely seen the cat.
There are plenty of cats in my neighborhood and I’ve never hit one. I’d expect an automated vehicle to drive better than a human, not worse.
You talk about people “railing against automation” but is it more productive to make reflexive excuses for its failures? The fact of the matter (IMO) is that we shouldn’t be beta test subjects for these companies and this new technology.
Also, keep cats inside.
This I can agree with.
Holy shit, its logical fallacy over and over with you.
I didn’t make any assumptions. If they can avoid animals now (which they can, and do), they can improve that detection and/or logic for cats that have disappeared under the car and not reappeared. That’s not even an assumption, much less a “big” one.
And you’ve never hit a cat that was hiding under your car? Are you sure? How can you prove it? Have you gotten out each time you drove away to make sure there wasn’t a cat left behind?
And you’ve driven 93m miles, so you can compare your extensive history and record of driving with waymo’s?
I personally don’t like the idea of driverless cars.
And there is your bias.
No one argues self-driving cars are “needed.” The point is, they are a significant improvement over humans when developed correctly.
And you’ve never hit a cat that was hiding under your car? Are you sure? How can you prove it? Have you gotten out each time you drove away to make sure there wasn’t a cat left behind?
I don’t find this convincing. Have you asked the Waymo Taxi the same thing? I can check if I’ve run over a cat, and I’m naturally Inclined to care. I can’t say the same about a robot. Especially one that isn’t open source.
If they can avoid animals now (which they can, and do), they can improve that detection and/or logic for cats that have disappeared under the car and not reappeared. That’s not even an assumption, much less a “big” one.
I develop software for a living. It is a big assumption to think that this will be fixed with a software update. I don’t know why you act as if it’s a sure thing.
I personally don’t like the idea of driverless cars.
And there is your bias.
Yes I am biased against driverless cars. They are a new technology that is being tested without our consent, and they are dependent on corporations rather than humans being held accountable when things go wrong (something that we currently struggle with as a society). The fact that you think I should default to the contrary is strange to me.
No one argues self-driving cars are “needed.” The point is, they are a significant improvement over humans when developed correctly.
I’d rather gravitate towards a driverless society where we invest in public transit and infrastructure rather than further ingraining cars into our society and adopting private companies (who use us as unwitting beta testers) as the solution to our problems.
How are people this fucking stupid? Really? I don’t want you to answer that. I would need some rational and intelligent discussion on the subject.
You need to calm down. Attacking my intelligence isn’t helping your argument. I think I’m done engaging with you now.
