I dont get why people think the difficulty with souls likes is so cool. It isnt difficult in a sense that you have to think a lot but rather that you memorise what moves the boss has and press your buttons fast enough. In a deep multiplayer game like dota2 or other strategy games you have real people who wont just do what they are programmed to. Heck i would say a auto battler like mechabellum is “harder” because i have to think on what to do… but do what you love…
isnt difficult in a sense that you have to think a lot but rather that you memorise what moves the boss has and press your buttons fast enough.
I see this a lot, but that wipes out like most games. Baldur’s gate you just click on stuff. Tekken you just hit buttons. Tetris is just moving blocks around.
Also you often don’t rote memorize the moves. People play by reaction or without knowing exactly what’s coming.
I dont think this would rule out baldurs gate, yea if you play your 19384728 playthrough and you already know the whole lore, what every dialog option would do and the respective dc what is the skill? In a normal playthrough you have to be generally smart about what you do. You have tons of options you can think of and you can solve problems in a bunch of different ways. Yea if you just do things and if it doesnt work out you reload i dont think there is much “skill” required to beat the game. But i also dont think that baldurs gate would be a game where skill matters. My point is that one is memorizing the awnsers for the test from trying it 300 times and the other is understanding the material so you could write any test without first failing it as soon as you are confronted with a new question…
What you describe strikes me as reaping enjoyment from technical accuracy. I think of it like mastering Moonlight Sonata as opposed to riffing something jazzy with friends. Both enjoyable, but quite different.
Depends on how reductive you’re being. To me, your initial assertion that Dark Souls isn’t difficult (or is not as difficult as an online game) because it’s ultimately just a test of your pattern recognition / memorization and reflexes is ignoring the forest for the trees. If I applied that same mindset to playing an instrument, I could argue that, mechanically, they’re the same. You learn a boss’ pattern (I.e. learn the sheet music) and then it’s just a matter of moving your fingers to hit the requisite inputs.
Of course, I think most people would balk at describing making music as nothing more than playing the right notes at the right time, and rightly so. We tend to attach a certain amount of ineffable poetry to that act. I’m not saying that they’re 1:1 equivalent, mind you, but I’ve heard enough folks discuss a Souls boss fight in musical terms (tempo, rhythm, crescendos, etc.) to see the parallel.
Yea i get your point, i have to clarify that i ddont think that there is no skill involved but rather that the skill is more on the line of learning a pattern not of making descisions and understanding and adapting. If the music anology is used my point would be that learning sheet music is hard but understanding hoq music works to play together with a few people without giben sheet music is a whole other level. My point is that you dont just remember the pattern but that you have to adapt and no jam session is “the same” as in no other (musical) ülayed just plays the same pattern off notes every time.
I dont really care what is “harder” but i hate the culture in the souls like community where people think they are soo hardcore because they learned the sheet music/boss patterns.
Yea true, but a good part of the souls like people really get high from playing the “”“hardest”“” game. Not dimbing down mechanics is great…for multiplayer so “good” players see that they are better. Giving every player in a fps a aimbot wouldnt be fun, the fact that lots of shooters go further in the direction of less skill ceilling is propably the reason why stuff like arma, tarkov or squad gets players. Dying and getting shit on is as much of the fun in these games as is winning imo.
I dont get why people think the difficulty with souls likes is so cool. It isnt difficult in a sense that you have to think a lot but rather that you memorise what moves the boss has and press your buttons fast enough. In a deep multiplayer game like dota2 or other strategy games you have real people who wont just do what they are programmed to. Heck i would say a auto battler like mechabellum is “harder” because i have to think on what to do… but do what you love…
I see this a lot, but that wipes out like most games. Baldur’s gate you just click on stuff. Tekken you just hit buttons. Tetris is just moving blocks around.
Also you often don’t rote memorize the moves. People play by reaction or without knowing exactly what’s coming.
I dont think this would rule out baldurs gate, yea if you play your 19384728 playthrough and you already know the whole lore, what every dialog option would do and the respective dc what is the skill? In a normal playthrough you have to be generally smart about what you do. You have tons of options you can think of and you can solve problems in a bunch of different ways. Yea if you just do things and if it doesnt work out you reload i dont think there is much “skill” required to beat the game. But i also dont think that baldurs gate would be a game where skill matters. My point is that one is memorizing the awnsers for the test from trying it 300 times and the other is understanding the material so you could write any test without first failing it as soon as you are confronted with a new question…
Is this describing Baldur’s gare or elden ring? Because it seems to apply to both to me
Was saying this about bg.
Right. But I think that applies to both. Lots of options and ways to solve problems, not just memorizing and following a recipe.
What you describe strikes me as reaping enjoyment from technical accuracy. I think of it like mastering Moonlight Sonata as opposed to riffing something jazzy with friends. Both enjoyable, but quite different.
Yea i understand that at some point but i would argue that there is a lot more to playing a instrument that good then to beating yxz soul.
Depends on how reductive you’re being. To me, your initial assertion that Dark Souls isn’t difficult (or is not as difficult as an online game) because it’s ultimately just a test of your pattern recognition / memorization and reflexes is ignoring the forest for the trees. If I applied that same mindset to playing an instrument, I could argue that, mechanically, they’re the same. You learn a boss’ pattern (I.e. learn the sheet music) and then it’s just a matter of moving your fingers to hit the requisite inputs.
Of course, I think most people would balk at describing making music as nothing more than playing the right notes at the right time, and rightly so. We tend to attach a certain amount of ineffable poetry to that act. I’m not saying that they’re 1:1 equivalent, mind you, but I’ve heard enough folks discuss a Souls boss fight in musical terms (tempo, rhythm, crescendos, etc.) to see the parallel.
Yea i get your point, i have to clarify that i ddont think that there is no skill involved but rather that the skill is more on the line of learning a pattern not of making descisions and understanding and adapting. If the music anology is used my point would be that learning sheet music is hard but understanding hoq music works to play together with a few people without giben sheet music is a whole other level. My point is that you dont just remember the pattern but that you have to adapt and no jam session is “the same” as in no other (musical) ülayed just plays the same pattern off notes every time.
I dont really care what is “harder” but i hate the culture in the souls like community where people think they are soo hardcore because they learned the sheet music/boss patterns.
Ninja Gaiden
Ninja gaiden for Xbox was such a good game.
The difficulty always felt fair. When I died it felt like it was because I wasn’t good enough, and there was a lesson to learn. It never felt cheap.
“you get a sense of pride and accomplishment”
I’m partially joking but it it can be satisfying to figuring out and executing the series of patterns in good timing.
The thing is thinking that you’re so cool for it :P … I never see an issue with someone enjoying the game for the story or whatever else.
Yea true, but a good part of the souls like people really get high from playing the “”“hardest”“” game. Not dimbing down mechanics is great…for multiplayer so “good” players see that they are better. Giving every player in a fps a aimbot wouldnt be fun, the fact that lots of shooters go further in the direction of less skill ceilling is propably the reason why stuff like arma, tarkov or squad gets players. Dying and getting shit on is as much of the fun in these games as is winning imo.