Proton threads are where the leftists equivalents to sovereign citizens pop up. Learn the technology a bit and about legal systems. That’s what you have to operate within. If you want to feel more in control, encrypt everything yourself and only communicate/share in encrypted channels. At least then the primary sources of leaks is you and the receiver. If not, you’re whining about streamlined performant services that will never be perfect enough for your standards because they operate legally rather than the user unfriendly solutions that you aren’t willing to operate yourself for your life (maybe to be passed on) and/or won’t run/can’t afford to operate the illegal operation
I don’t think that’s bad on Proton’s part. They are obeying the law they are obliged to obey.
Yeah, more important is what data was it
Privacy is not anonymity. In this case they were required to supply IP addresses of users logging into a certain account in an active investigation.
As usual, the devil is in the details—ProtonMail’s original policy simply said that the service does not keep IP logs “by default.” However, as a Swiss company itself, ProtonMail was obliged to comply with a Swiss court’s injunction demanding that it begin logging IP address and browser fingerprint information for a particular ProtonMail account.
"From time to time, Proton may be legally compelled to disclose certain user information to Swiss authorities, as detailed in our Privacy Policy. This can happen if Swiss law is broken. As stated in our Privacy Policy, all emails, files and invites are encrypted and we have no means to decrypt them. "
Before 2021, it was claimed that there were no logs, no IP addresses, etc. So can you trust them they not able decrypt your mails…? Use pgp…
“Allegedly” no means.
Once again - Proton is legally obligated to comply with the laws of the country in which they are based. This isn’t specific to Proton, and they are not going behind your back to do this. In case it’s not clear, this data is directly from Proton.
Yeah, this is not really an own against Proton… There’s other actual issues with the services and leadership that are more serious
The one comment by one person on the 5-person board who was supportive of one singular person that Trump had picked? That one?
I’m not a fanboy here. I just hate misinformation.
And thanked Trump for their effort against BigTech.
You hate misinformation but you sure know how to cherry pick.
If this government deregulated big tech any harder we’d be living in Cyberpunk
What’s your motivation to downplay it, fanboyism?
Who said anything about downplaying? This is how law works. If you are a company operating in any particular country, you have a legal obligation to follow the laws of said country. And if that means handing over data because you were subpoenaed? Tough titties, cough it up. Or get arrested for failing to comply. And this includes your own data if you choose to self-host your own email.
Don’t mistake me understanding the law for agreeing with the law.
It contradicts all of Proton’s advertising… They continue to convey a different impression; even though they provide such data, they still advertise with certainty, etc…
Edit: I almost forgot… Back when this kind of thing was leaked (yes, leaked, not shared by them), I exchanged a few words with them (I am a customer, after all), and they denied everything and demanded proof… Nevertheless, I’m still with them because they’re still among the least bad.
READ THE THREAT MODEL FFS
I just want a low cost VPN to get around in-state censorship and the occasional bit of piracy. I’m not running a Wikileaks fork or trying to do OpSec for The Revolution.
If you’re spinning up your own version of Silk Road, maybe consider a home lab instead of relying on untrusted third parties.
Mullvad
No it doesn’t contradict their advertising. They’ve been completely open about this the entire time.
And they’re not providing anything other than account details per the infographic. Account data remains encrypted
It’s on you if you thought a business would break the law for you.
No, they weren’t ALWAYS open about the issue (changed 2021). Aren’t they advertising themselves as safe? That contradicts it! The right advertising would have been to say it’s safe until the government comes… That would have been honest.
I’ll go through my emails later and hope I didn’t delete them back then. But now I’m going to lie down for a bit.
It is safe; your data is still encrypted. They only provide account metadata.
You’re confusing privacy with anonymity.
Edit: and furthermore, Proton does have the ability for you to set up your account anonymously. You can use a burner recovery email and pay with Bitcoin.
Funnily enough, the answer is no longer available. I wasn’t arguing against encryption. Rather, I was arguing against its occurrence. Although I don’t trust Proton 100% not to have a key.
So, BTC is not anonymous, and buying it is linked to data. BTC is also nice in the blockchain. I always preferred Paysafe card, but you can’t get that anonymously anymore either.
But now I’m particularly concerned that their response has disappeared.
But it was sometime around June 21, 2019, when it came out (I think because a US citizen was arrested.) that they were working with states. To date, they have not published this themselves.
Incidentally, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t use Proton. It’s still one of the best on the market, but you shouldn’t blindly trust them.
At that time (begin of proton ), Switzerland was also still a haven for tax evaders, etc. Back then, they worked secretly with the government… There was no obligation yet.
ProtonMail removed “we do not keep any IP logs” from its privacy policy 2021 (at this time cause a french activist) 😊
Imagine the Orange government demanding some delicate data for some political or p
retty reason - should provider still comply? What if Chinese government does the same? Also I might be mistaken, but doesn’t US force providers not to disclose the request to affected party, at least they can?Imagine the Orange government demanding some delicate data for some political or pretty reason - should provider still comply?
Believe it or not - when legally obligated, even providers like Google and Apple can and do comply.
What if Chinese government does the same?
See above. If a company is operating in China, that company (or branch) has to comply with the local laws. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Also I might be mistaken, but doesn’t US force providers not to disclose the request to affected party, at least they can?
I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if that was the case.
Proton is only required to provide the data if Swiss authorities request it.
Don’t cry…
Cry about what, exactly?
That’s the spirit!
Granted, it’s been awhile since I read this, but don’t their subpoenas driven info essentially say yes, this is so and so’s email account with no discourse content due to encryption?
Have they also handed over private keys?
This is just a case of having to follow Swiss law for the most part. However, they’re moving to Germany I think, considering that Switzerland is considering worse surveillance than us Americans are getting.
Dang! So what’s the preferred email app? The preferred email provider?
There is no known way to participate in email communication without at least some metadata leaking. Its not a privacy preserving system
For all questions: your own.
Every company has to comply with the laws of the country in which they operate, and no company is going to go to jail for you. There’s other encrypted email providers, but they will still have to abide by their local laws. The best you can hope for is that they have minimal data on you and that anything potentially incriminating is encrypted and can only be decrypted by you.
, and no company is going to go to jail for you.
Assnuts. They’d not go to jail anyway. Companies pay fines at most, you might arrest a specific legal representative (one of 123456789 employees of the company) for three days while the lawyer comes up with better papers, but companies never, meaningfully go to jail.
Right. The point is that they’re not going to do you any favors with regard to the law. They have zero incentive to fight the law on your behalf, because your relationship is purely transactional.
Another way to say it is, “No company is going to break the law for you.”
My nose keeps pointing towards selfhosting. TY!
The [email protected] community has lots of info and helpful people!
I mean, you need to abide by laws even when you self host. I’m not saying it’s likely, but if you self host and the authorities legally demand records from you, are you prepared to go to court or prison over it?
Lol what?
If I am in control of the data and I have a reason to don’t disclose said data, guess what’s gonna happen as soon as they demand it?
Destruction of evidence is also a crime in most places.
What evidence?
Evidence: “We know you had this data based on emails between you and X entity, who already gave us emails and confirmed it was with you who they were communicating. We know you destroyed hard drives based on the fact that we found hard drive remains in your trash within 24 hours of receiving the subpoena. Cough up the data or face prison time.”
It’s not hard to solve for X when you know the rest of the equation.
Any legal service has too give away what they save to the authorities by law. So you need to find an email service that saves nothing about you.
My nose keeps pointing towards selfhosting. TY!
If anything, self-hosting puts you more at risk, since in that case the government will know exactly who to lock up, or $5 wrench, until they get the information they want
Hmm, suggestions?
That includes you, my dude.
Honestly person users deserve whatever they get for supporting that weirdo ceo
A great Medium article on the topic that analyzes the entire situation: (coming to the conclusion that no, Proton does not really seem to be in favor of Trump/MAGA at all given their actual actions, and how the original statement was misinterpreted)
Comment reposted from https://piefed.social/comment/8747739
The fact that this article had to be written in the first place is the dealbreaker for me
So fact that people misinterpret and misinform other dealbreaker for correct information?
You definitely antivax and probably flat earther.
Definitely not, but ok. You seem very upset about this. Hope you feel better
The fact you need correct this is dealbreaker to me.
He’s weirdly a MAGA Trump supporter and publicly supporting them from the official Proton account, despite not being an American citizen. It’s a crazy take, but he is a CEO, so those kind of people stick together.
Stop misinformation https://piefed.social/comment/8747739
Is this referring to anything beside his tweet in Jan?
Yeah, let’s wait till we find out that they actually can and do unencrypt our data.
What could go wrong?
Aaaand there it is.
