Lets say they keep everything as it is right now, like they literally have the games they already have and add some difficulty options like less annoying backtracking. How does this “ruin” your experience?
Every one of these arguments is based on the entirely made up idea that sacrifices must be made to achieve these improvements.
Dark souls would be a very different experience if the monsters weren’t threatening and there were no setbacks for defeat. People believe the experience is important. Accepting that defeat is only a temporary setback and you can just try again is a significant experience, and if you make the game trivial you won’t achieve that.
Dark souls would be a very different experience if the monsters weren’t threatening and there were no setbacks for defeat.
Crazy strawman argument here. Its not even remotely close to what is being argued.
People believe the experience is important.
What Im suggesting doesnt prevent them from having that. The fact they feel it must be imposed on others for them to play those games is ridiculous and childish.
Accepting that defeat is only a temporary setback and you can just try again is a significant experience, and if you make the game trivial you won’t achieve that.
This assumption that difficulty settings are all about making a game trivial is just so obviously bad faith nonsense.
More than that, some people do just enjoy things that way and they don’t care about the other parts of the experience. There is literally no reason all people involved cant have cake. Its literally just angsty gatekeepers whining that they think there needs to be a bar to entry to play a video game; something people do for fun.
Let me just skip ahead to asking you the question none of you annoying gatekeepy folks can answer.
Lets say they keep everything as it is right now, like they literally have the games they already have and add some difficulty options like less annoying backtracking. How does this “ruin” your experience?
I think our assumptions are not shared, so arguing more isn’t going to be productive until that’s straightened out.
When you say difficulty settings, I think of lowering enemy effectiveness, raising player effectiveness, and removing consequences for bad play (eg: permadeath of characters). Is that what you mean?
You mention less annoying backtracking. Can you imagine a game where the “annoying back tracking” is fulfilling an important role (eg: resources attrition, encouraging revisiting areas)?
If so, is there a threshold beyond which is too much? If there’s a slider that adjusts enemy damage, should it go to zero? If no, how do you decide the limits? What about the players who want to exceed them?
It seems like you have the assumption that everyone should be able to complete every game. Is that correct? Is that true for all media, or only video games?
I would write more but I’m on my phone and almost to my destination.
When you say difficulty settings, I think of lowering enemy effectiveness, raising player effectiveness, and removing consequences for bad play (eg: permadeath of characters). Is that what you mean?
Can be, doesn’t have to be.
Can be things like making it such that you can fast travel instead of travelling slowly back. Can be that you skip a minigame you just don’t think adds anything to the game. Can be that you do or don’t want certain queues etc.
Can be a lot of things and the point is basically that there are a lot of things which can be toggleable settings which are extremely easy to implement, and greatly improve the experience for some players, while players who want “what the developers envisioned” or whatever, can play it that way just fine.
Others can make certain elements harder or easier or non existent based on their preferences.
You mention less annoying backtracking. Can you imagine a game where the “annoying back tracking” is fulfilling an important role (eg: resources attrition, encouraging revisiting areas)?
I can imagine some situations where it could be sure, but most of the times it isn’t and the times it isn’t isn’t worth the effort for me. It just makes the game less fun for no conceivable benefit most of the time. The backtracking Im describing here is essentially filler (the type I don’t think most people like).
If so, is there a threshold beyond which is too much? If there’s a slider that adjusts enemy damage, should it go to zero? If no, how do you decide the limits? What about the players who want to exceed them?
I think the idea here that you seem to be putting out is that there is some point at which a players choice to change the difficulty is no longer valid, and I don’t think any such point exists. Let people do what they want, and give them some reasonable defaults that you’ve actually tested for/think blend well.
It seems like you have the assumption that everyone should be able to complete every game. Is that correct? Is that true for all media, or only video games?
I’ve seen someone ask this before and I think its an absurd question to ask. No one in their right mind buys any media to not finish it. No one walks into a movie hoping its so shit they walk out half way, or starts a novel hoping they’re so bored they put it down.
Of course everyone should be able to complete every game. I can’t even think of what point this could be leading to except the obvious absurd idea that people should be expecting not to be able to enjoy the things they purchase.
You’re objectively wrong. I just wanted to make sure you understood that.
No one cares what “you” want, unless “you” perfectly describe the purchasing power of 100k potential customers.
FROMsoft doesn’t care if you play their game, which is great for me because I like their artistic vision unfettered by useless contrarianism.
Oh, and to answer the question you think is a gacha - I’d rather the team spend every second making the game they want to then to spare even one developers afternoon to add “difficulty settings” - that employee could have been doing something actually useful to the game and its target audience.
You really following me around to just assert that your bad take is “objectively” right over and over again?
No one cares what “you” want, unless “you” perfectly describe the purchasing power of 100k potential customers.
This is a common complaint, and its what the folks like you are bitching about; the idea that anyone would dare have criticisms that you dont agree with.
Oh, and to answer the question you think is a gacha - I’d rather the team spend every second making the game they want to then to spare even one developers afternoon to add “difficulty settings” - that employee could have been doing something actually useful to the game and its target audience.
This isn’t an answer at all, as expected from you given that the stipulations are that this is separate to the games creation. The fact you can’t answer really goes to show that it is indeed just useless gatekeeping. That you follow me around for this really goes to show how toxic your mentality is.
The only one posed in the question this spawns from??
Lets say they keep everything as it is right now, like they literally have the games they already have and add some difficulty options like less annoying backtracking. How does this “ruin” your experience?
What makes you think every game should be for every person?
No, it absolutely isn’t a made up idea that allowing barnacles to glomp on to an experience so that they can feel included cheapens the whole experience.
I do not want McDonald’s Souls. I get that you’re fine with it, I’m not.
What makes you think every game should be for every person?
What makes you want to make such a clear strawman argument?
No, it absolutely isn’t a made up idea that allowing barnacles to glomp on to an experience so that they can feel included cheapens the whole experience.
I love that you literally cant answer the question because you know its immature gamer gate keeping. You just completely avoided it.
I’ll repeat:
Lets say they keep everything as it is right now, like they literally have the games they already have and add some difficulty options like less annoying backtracking. How does this “ruin” your experience?
Edit: for a real answer, since the advent of video games there have been people like you claiming that they’re too hard. Video games are meant to be beaten. They are literally designed that way, just because you can’t seem to beat them doesn’t mean everyone should conform to you.
Seriously, go pick a different game. Thousands of games exist with difficulty sliders. Pick one and shut the fuck up about the ones that don’t.
for a real answer, since the advent of video games there have been people like you claiming that they’re too hard. Video games are meant to be beaten. They are literally designed that way, just because you can’t seem to beat them doesn’t mean everyone should conform to you.
This is not a real answer at all.
This is you first poisoning the well by insinuating that I’m bad at games firstly, and then pretending that these settings only have to do with hardness in 1 dimension. Its not remotely a good faith effort to answer.
Why would I assume anything but ineptitude on your part?
You either have a fundamentally flawed understanding of why single difficulty games exist or you are just bad at games. I don’t care which, I will say that Atomfall is extremely fucking boring.
Why would I assume anything but ineptitude on your part?
If you were being a reasonable well rounded human being and not a toxic gamer trope, that would be a reason.
You either have a fundamentally flawed understanding of why single difficulty games exist or you are just bad at games.
Given that not a single person has been able to make a cogent argument for them existing and the second thing is the comment of a toddler, Im going to go with the third option that Im shocked this level of toxicity exists on lemmy.
I don’t know why I expected better, but this is bottom of the barrel. You get better conversation on reddit, legitimately. This is all over a difference in opinion on difficulty settings in gaming. Its amazing really. Like you never sat back for a second and thought about how you were acting over a video game opinion.
Difficulty is a way some devs express their vision - nearly anything by FROMsoft, for example.
Why would you want to limit their artistic expression to suit your needs? Just play something else. Or mod the difficulty down if it’s so important to you, but it’s not their job to make sure you, personally, enjoy the game, because that’s how you end up with mediocre catch all by-the-numbers fests like GTA.
Why would you want to limit their artistic expression to suit your needs?
This is a nonsensical argument as no ones artistic vision is limited with what I’ve suggested.
You are now following me around and its kinda weird you are so entrenched and toxic about it.
The fact you could not answer the question regarding fromsoft of
Lets say they keep everything as it is right now, like they literally have the games they already have and add some difficulty options like less annoying backtracking. How does this “ruin” your experience?
Combined with this super weird behaviour of following me around with comments varying from just insults to half-assed answers tells me that your toxicity is something you are aware of and don’t have a problem with.
“Git gud or die” literally is a genre. It’s called soulslike.
Also “every game should have difficulty options” and “every game should be a survival crafter” are both fundamentally “every game should be what I like.”
You can set a difficulty option to the default, what it would be if there weren’t a choice. Changing the genre of a game isn’t generally in the settings menu.
“Soulslike” is an absurdly nebulous term that just means “hard.” It isn’t a genre. It gets applied to games of every conceivable genre based solely on their difficulty. Battletoads is a Soulslike. Path of Exile is a Soulslike. Dead Cells is a Soulslike. Never mind that all of Fromsoft’s Souls games are specifically action-adventure RPGs, which is a genre.
While I like games that have multiple difficulties to make them more accessible this is an unrealistic expectation. Difficulty settings can add a lot of extra development time. Its not always as easy as just adding a slider in the menu. There is a lot of Q&A that needs to go on behind the scenes. I do appreciate the games that put in the effort to flesh out a good difficulty system. Single difficulty games also have a rough balancing act as now matter what they do there will be people that say its to easy or too hard.
In what way is any of what I said unrealistic? Its already been done. Many games have much higher standards than just one difficulty.
Difficulty settings can add a lot of extra development time.
Nonsense. This is one of the things that modders change most easily. Many of the things I want in difficulty settings are as simple as flipping a boolean.
I’m not saying difficulty settings that are robust are nothing, but you’re pretending they take up way more effort than they do.
What a trite, immature, troll like response this is.
Not having good difficulty settings is not a genre. It’s a lacking.
This tired response of pretending any criticism of anything means a person “must clearly not be the target audience” is extremely thoughtless gatekeeping.
It’s such a bad argument on its face too, as if someone disliking a flaw in something means they clearly must haste the thing in its entirety. insufferable people.
In this context, though, yes, you are obviously not the target audience and that is specifically your issue with it. You really are just being a crybaby about something not having a specialized programming element to allow you to customize the game to make it just right for your specific taste and play style preference.
Should every restaurant make sure to have everyone’s favorite food available even if it’s entirely antithetical to the intention of the menu?
In this context, though, yes, you are obviously not the target audience and that is specifically your issue with it.
It literally isnt at all. You know you’re wrong too and thats why this is a frustrating argument. You aren’t arguing with your real opinions here.
If you made your restaurant analogy honest, it would be like a restaraunt has peanuts sprinkled on a dessert you like, so you ask them not to sprinkle peanuts there, and some other patreons flip their tables and bark like dogs at the idea that you would dare ask them not to do that, acting as if it must mean you don’t like the dessert if you don’t get the peanuts.
You really are just being a crybaby about something not having a specialized programming element to allow you to customize the game to make it just right for your specific taste and play style preference.
I don’t know where all your hatred is coming from. My comment was a genuine suggestion to a problem you’re facing that worked for me. Do you need to be able to consume and experience everything there is? Personally, I don’t. If a game is not for me, then it’s not for me and I move on. It has never stroke me as ‘gatekeeping’.
Furthermore, what you’re expressing are neither criticism nor preferences. It’s just pure hate towards anything and anyone you don’t like, as displayed here:
I fucking hate creatives who believe super deeply they’ve created some masterpiece meant to be played one way.
Sure, ‘hate’ doesn’t have to be literal. I sometimes say it too, without meaning it literally. However, I’d argue that the second comment has clearly showed the intent and meaning behind the first one.
I don’t know where all your hatred is coming from.
Yes, you do
My comment was a genuine suggestion
You know it wasn’t
Do you need to be able to consume and experience everything there is?
No one has made the claim they do. They’re discussing something they dislike, in this, a place for discussion.
Meanwhile, you’re over here like “just dont play games then if you’re going to complain”. Why don’t you just not use lemmy if you’re going to complain. See how useless and bad faith that argument genuine suggestion* is?
Personally, I don’t. If a game is not for me, then it’s not for me and I move on.
This right here is annoying, trolling, gatekeepy bullshit too where you pretend that if someone has any criticism of anything, clearly it’s not for them.
Furthermore, what you’re expressing are neither criticism nor preferences. It’s just pure hate towards anything and anyone you don’t like, as displayed here:
This is the most ridiculously blatant words twisting I’ve ever seen. Your brain stem must be tied into knots with those mental gymnastics.
All games should have difficulty settings as fleshed out as Atomfall.
The idea that games should be a set difficulty with the set annoyances that game includes is stupid.
LIke I personally, would delete all minigames, fuck em, and have hard combat. Thats my preference.
I fucking hate creatives who believe super deeply they’ve created some masterpiece meant to be played one way.
Nah, difficulty settings would ruin From Software games imo. It really is genre, or even game, dependent
Lets say they keep everything as it is right now, like they literally have the games they already have and add some difficulty options like less annoying backtracking. How does this “ruin” your experience?
Every one of these arguments is based on the entirely made up idea that sacrifices must be made to achieve these improvements.
Dark souls would be a very different experience if the monsters weren’t threatening and there were no setbacks for defeat. People believe the experience is important. Accepting that defeat is only a temporary setback and you can just try again is a significant experience, and if you make the game trivial you won’t achieve that.
Crazy strawman argument here. Its not even remotely close to what is being argued.
What Im suggesting doesnt prevent them from having that. The fact they feel it must be imposed on others for them to play those games is ridiculous and childish.
This assumption that difficulty settings are all about making a game trivial is just so obviously bad faith nonsense.
More than that, some people do just enjoy things that way and they don’t care about the other parts of the experience. There is literally no reason all people involved cant have cake. Its literally just angsty gatekeepers whining that they think there needs to be a bar to entry to play a video game; something people do for fun.
Let me just skip ahead to asking you the question none of you annoying gatekeepy folks can answer.
Lets say they keep everything as it is right now, like they literally have the games they already have and add some difficulty options like less annoying backtracking. How does this “ruin” your experience?
I think our assumptions are not shared, so arguing more isn’t going to be productive until that’s straightened out.
When you say difficulty settings, I think of lowering enemy effectiveness, raising player effectiveness, and removing consequences for bad play (eg: permadeath of characters). Is that what you mean?
You mention less annoying backtracking. Can you imagine a game where the “annoying back tracking” is fulfilling an important role (eg: resources attrition, encouraging revisiting areas)?
If so, is there a threshold beyond which is too much? If there’s a slider that adjusts enemy damage, should it go to zero? If no, how do you decide the limits? What about the players who want to exceed them?
It seems like you have the assumption that everyone should be able to complete every game. Is that correct? Is that true for all media, or only video games?
I would write more but I’m on my phone and almost to my destination.
Can be, doesn’t have to be.
Can be things like making it such that you can fast travel instead of travelling slowly back. Can be that you skip a minigame you just don’t think adds anything to the game. Can be that you do or don’t want certain queues etc.
Can be a lot of things and the point is basically that there are a lot of things which can be toggleable settings which are extremely easy to implement, and greatly improve the experience for some players, while players who want “what the developers envisioned” or whatever, can play it that way just fine.
Others can make certain elements harder or easier or non existent based on their preferences.
I can imagine some situations where it could be sure, but most of the times it isn’t and the times it isn’t isn’t worth the effort for me. It just makes the game less fun for no conceivable benefit most of the time. The backtracking Im describing here is essentially filler (the type I don’t think most people like).
I think the idea here that you seem to be putting out is that there is some point at which a players choice to change the difficulty is no longer valid, and I don’t think any such point exists. Let people do what they want, and give them some reasonable defaults that you’ve actually tested for/think blend well.
I’ve seen someone ask this before and I think its an absurd question to ask. No one in their right mind buys any media to not finish it. No one walks into a movie hoping its so shit they walk out half way, or starts a novel hoping they’re so bored they put it down.
Of course everyone should be able to complete every game. I can’t even think of what point this could be leading to except the obvious absurd idea that people should be expecting not to be able to enjoy the things they purchase.
The difficulty is a key part of the developer’s vision for the game, and changing that compromises it.
It’s interesting you literally cant answer the question.
Its because there is no answer. The truth is its 100% about useless gatekeeping.
You’re objectively wrong. I just wanted to make sure you understood that.
No one cares what “you” want, unless “you” perfectly describe the purchasing power of 100k potential customers.
FROMsoft doesn’t care if you play their game, which is great for me because I like their artistic vision unfettered by useless contrarianism.
Oh, and to answer the question you think is a gacha - I’d rather the team spend every second making the game they want to then to spare even one developers afternoon to add “difficulty settings” - that employee could have been doing something actually useful to the game and its target audience.
You really following me around to just assert that your bad take is “objectively” right over and over again?
This is a common complaint, and its what the folks like you are bitching about; the idea that anyone would dare have criticisms that you dont agree with.
This isn’t an answer at all, as expected from you given that the stipulations are that this is separate to the games creation. The fact you can’t answer really goes to show that it is indeed just useless gatekeeping. That you follow me around for this really goes to show how toxic your mentality is.
I have 0 respect for you, don’t bother. Goodbye.
Its very obvious. You seem very toxic.
What question?
The only one posed in the question this spawns from??
Oh so literally the question that I just answered.
In no conceivable way did you answer that question.
What makes you think every game should be for every person?
No, it absolutely isn’t a made up idea that allowing barnacles to glomp on to an experience so that they can feel included cheapens the whole experience.
I do not want McDonald’s Souls. I get that you’re fine with it, I’m not.
What makes you want to make such a clear strawman argument?
I love that you literally cant answer the question because you know its immature gamer gate keeping. You just completely avoided it.
I’ll repeat:
Shrugs
Git gud
Edit: for a real answer, since the advent of video games there have been people like you claiming that they’re too hard. Video games are meant to be beaten. They are literally designed that way, just because you can’t seem to beat them doesn’t mean everyone should conform to you.
Seriously, go pick a different game. Thousands of games exist with difficulty sliders. Pick one and shut the fuck up about the ones that don’t.
This is not a real answer at all.
This is you first poisoning the well by insinuating that I’m bad at games firstly, and then pretending that these settings only have to do with hardness in 1 dimension. Its not remotely a good faith effort to answer.
Why would I assume anything but ineptitude on your part?
You either have a fundamentally flawed understanding of why single difficulty games exist or you are just bad at games. I don’t care which, I will say that Atomfall is extremely fucking boring.
If you were being a reasonable well rounded human being and not a toxic gamer trope, that would be a reason.
Given that not a single person has been able to make a cogent argument for them existing and the second thing is the comment of a toddler, Im going to go with the third option that Im shocked this level of toxicity exists on lemmy.
I don’t know why I expected better, but this is bottom of the barrel. You get better conversation on reddit, legitimately. This is all over a difference in opinion on difficulty settings in gaming. Its amazing really. Like you never sat back for a second and thought about how you were acting over a video game opinion.
Difficulty is a way some devs express their vision - nearly anything by FROMsoft, for example.
Why would you want to limit their artistic expression to suit your needs? Just play something else. Or mod the difficulty down if it’s so important to you, but it’s not their job to make sure you, personally, enjoy the game, because that’s how you end up with mediocre catch all by-the-numbers fests like GTA.
This is a nonsensical argument as no ones artistic vision is limited with what I’ve suggested.
You are now following me around and its kinda weird you are so entrenched and toxic about it.
The fact you could not answer the question regarding fromsoft of
Combined with this super weird behaviour of following me around with comments varying from just insults to half-assed answers tells me that your toxicity is something you are aware of and don’t have a problem with.
Yeah and I’m pissed that expedition 33 isn’t a survival crafter.
See how ridiculous I sound?
I fucking hate that Apex Legends doesn’t have a “peaceful” difficulty. Can’t we all just get along?
You sound ridiculous because you’re making a cartoonishly bad faith argument where you pretend not having good difficulty options is a genre.
“Git gud or die” literally is a genre. It’s called soulslike.
Also “every game should have difficulty options” and “every game should be a survival crafter” are both fundamentally “every game should be what I like.”
You can set a difficulty option to the default, what it would be if there weren’t a choice. Changing the genre of a game isn’t generally in the settings menu.
“Soulslike” is an absurdly nebulous term that just means “hard.” It isn’t a genre. It gets applied to games of every conceivable genre based solely on their difficulty. Battletoads is a Soulslike. Path of Exile is a Soulslike. Dead Cells is a Soulslike. Never mind that all of Fromsoft’s Souls games are specifically action-adventure RPGs, which is a genre.
While I like games that have multiple difficulties to make them more accessible this is an unrealistic expectation. Difficulty settings can add a lot of extra development time. Its not always as easy as just adding a slider in the menu. There is a lot of Q&A that needs to go on behind the scenes. I do appreciate the games that put in the effort to flesh out a good difficulty system. Single difficulty games also have a rough balancing act as now matter what they do there will be people that say its to easy or too hard.
In what way is any of what I said unrealistic? Its already been done. Many games have much higher standards than just one difficulty.
Nonsense. This is one of the things that modders change most easily. Many of the things I want in difficulty settings are as simple as flipping a boolean.
I’m not saying difficulty settings that are robust are nothing, but you’re pretending they take up way more effort than they do.
Then play the games you prefer.
I don’t like romance movies. Can you guess how I solved that problem?
What a trite, immature, troll like response this is.
Not having good difficulty settings is not a genre. It’s a lacking.
This tired response of pretending any criticism of anything means a person “must clearly not be the target audience” is extremely thoughtless gatekeeping.
It’s such a bad argument on its face too, as if someone disliking a flaw in something means they clearly must haste the thing in its entirety. insufferable people.
In this context, though, yes, you are obviously not the target audience and that is specifically your issue with it. You really are just being a crybaby about something not having a specialized programming element to allow you to customize the game to make it just right for your specific taste and play style preference.
Should every restaurant make sure to have everyone’s favorite food available even if it’s entirely antithetical to the intention of the menu?
It literally isnt at all. You know you’re wrong too and thats why this is a frustrating argument. You aren’t arguing with your real opinions here.
If you made your restaurant analogy honest, it would be like a restaraunt has peanuts sprinkled on a dessert you like, so you ask them not to sprinkle peanuts there, and some other patreons flip their tables and bark like dogs at the idea that you would dare ask them not to do that, acting as if it must mean you don’t like the dessert if you don’t get the peanuts.
This part is just childish.
No, it’s more like they told you no, they don’t do that here, and you flipped the table.
Except no tables are flipped, and its you lot with the insults and anger.
Sure.
Jesus Christ go back to Reddit.
I don’t know where all your hatred is coming from. My comment was a genuine suggestion to a problem you’re facing that worked for me. Do you need to be able to consume and experience everything there is? Personally, I don’t. If a game is not for me, then it’s not for me and I move on. It has never stroke me as ‘gatekeeping’.
Furthermore, what you’re expressing are neither criticism nor preferences. It’s just pure hate towards anything and anyone you don’t like, as displayed here:
Sure, ‘hate’ doesn’t have to be literal. I sometimes say it too, without meaning it literally. However, I’d argue that the second comment has clearly showed the intent and meaning behind the first one.
Yes, you do
You know it wasn’t
No one has made the claim they do. They’re discussing something they dislike, in this, a place for discussion.
Meanwhile, you’re over here like “just dont play games then if you’re going to complain”. Why don’t you just not use lemmy if you’re going to complain. See how useless and bad faith that
argumentgenuine suggestion* is?This right here is annoying, trolling, gatekeepy bullshit too where you pretend that if someone has any criticism of anything, clearly it’s not for them.
This is the most ridiculously blatant words twisting I’ve ever seen. Your brain stem must be tied into knots with those mental gymnastics.