Valve refused to comment for the video.
As an old person who only kinda knew that lootboxes exist, this series was a huge eye opener to the insane amount of money and industry that has emerged around them. 10/10 would recommend to my fellow olds.
Now to head back to Bioshock where the only cost to looting boxes is that I might get attacked by a splicer.
Just check how much money GTA online has made for Rockstar every year. It’s an 11 year old game that makes half a BILLION dollars yearly.
No wonder they’re not in a hurry to get GTA 6 out. It MUST be better than GTA online both for gameplay and microtransactions as well as have the tech for live service
https://www.pcgamer.com/gta-online-makes-half-a-billion-dollars-a-year-even-though-its-a-hot-mess/
What the heck. Half a billion in microtransactions for a game that (according to this article) sounds like a real turd of a user experience. I loved GTA 3 and Vice City back in the day…I got GTA 4 in a Humble Bundle, haven’t spent much time with it yet. Anyone know if it’s a decent experience for a solo, offline, lootbox-free experience?
The single player is pretty good. You can also mod the single player to launch you into a separate online mode that doesn’t interact with R* servers. I don’t think there’s a way to sample GTA:O without signing in to the actual online mode. But like 99% of Twitch streamers for the game are playing a modded singleplayer version that lets them connect to roleplay servers
Valve just needs a way to ensure you are over the age of 18, and I know a way they can do that WITHOUT collecting IDs. They need to incorporate an age quiz like leisure suit Larry.
Or just fucking turn off trading stupid weapon skins? Idk, seems like the bare fucking minimum of effort.
Honestly, Valve should just ask for proof that you are 18+ if you want to sell items on Steam market or trade them.
Easiest solution IMO.
When they were asked to implement age verification in Germany, they simply pulled anything off their platform in the country that would require it instead. Mind you Germany has a system that makes age verification anonymous so if privacy concerns you, you could just implement it. (Almost no platform does because they want your data though.)
Valve doesn’t want to touch age verification with a 10 yard stick and that tells me it is probably the way to go here. Because once they have it, the path for more regulations is clear.
In this arena, more regulation is needed. Anonymous age verification is a good idea, but I question the actual anonymity. It usually depends on trust of some entity. And I just can’t fathom an entity that can really be trusted.
It uses the government ID, which has a built in NFC chip. You can use a phone in combination with your ID and it’s pin to verify your age online. The ID scanner app will tell you which parameters the website requests from your ID, and its possible to only request the birthdate.
I don’t like the system, but it is truly anonymous
Sounds like it is only anonymous if you fully trust the app. That app has all your information, and the site you are trying to access. And I bet it is completely closed source. It also likely has logs about what sires it is giving information to. Not who’s info in that log. But elsewhere it probably has logs on who’s id it verified. Get access to both, and software can start to crunch the numbers and figure out who went where. That if course is assuming they don’t decide in the future that it is worth just keeping that data together in one spot. There is just no entity that could manage that app which wouldn’t have a motive to use the data and power it has.
No, the app is completely open source and has reproducible builds. And the site you are accessing only gets the information it requested, and you see which information it requested in the app before scanning your ID
Well the entity is the government. You know, the guys who create your ID in the first place. It’s not perfect but it’s the best one I could conceive.
Not going to happen since Valve doesn’t want to manage a database of IDs. It’s why sex games with real life actors aren’t allowed on Steam since that would require Steam to have IDs and consent contracts of all the actors stored on their side.
And Gaben is a hardcore libertarian, probably despises government IDs.
Bit invasive if you have to provide photo id…
How often can one get a credit card at under the age of 18?
Surely that is a decent measure of it.
Also age of account? Mine is 21 in just over a week…
You would have to get a credit card though.
I don’t have one and I don’t want one. A debit card is good enough for me and those are possible and common to get before you turn 18.
I also imagine it’s easier for kids to get their parents to enter their credit card details compared to an ID card without asking questions.
You should never use a debit card online, though.
Also age of account? Mine is 21 in just over a week…
Then there will be a market for steam accounts (if there isn’t one yet)
where he squarely puts the blame on Valve
I know G*mers are far to Stockholmed by the monopolistic hell scape that Valve is responsible for.
But it’s nice to see someone say it.
I really don’t get the love for Valve. They charge double the fees of some other digital platforms, and people flip the fuck out when a developer is like "we’re releasing on origin because paying Valve would cost more money than the entire net profit of the game.
Valve has a huge backbone it also needs for daily traffic. Valve is pushing gaming on linux big time. Crossover wine etc would have taken at least years. Provide space for the community for forum, workshop, other data ( all running costs ) Epic origin uplay purely stock market oriented with junk launcher which is far worse spyware than Steam. Valve offers refunds. Their efforts with Steam link, controller, deck and whatnot. Valve offers the player a hell of a lot. Competitors offer junk spyware launcher mostly for games with rootkit compulsion… do not offer a forum or anything else but refer to steam. Would prefer not to offer anything directly on steam but have a right to use the platform… Would the competitors instead of suing… would invest in the products and think about the players instead of the shareholders… then there would be no monopoly. Damn valve even opens up to others for free… Steamos, for example, will also exist outside the steam deck, whereby competitors could also adapt it directly as something of their own.
They offer a free operating system anyone can use that’s name after their company and designed to play games sold through the included store for a 30% cut of sales.
What saints!
If Google did something similar, I bet everyone would say they’re a great company and not at all evil…
Gabe is a billionaire monopolist, not your friend.
Ask linux Kernel maintainer or mesa, Vulkan, wine etc. what they profit from valves cooperation. Yes, valve is very involved. Yes, Google and the like also contribute improvements from time to time, but for the most part it remains with their proprietary accessories that only they themselves benefit from. Gabe has also built up a lot of things to earn this. As I said, competitors are always welcome to improve their launchers and build a backbone comparable to that of valve.
My point is that SteamOS is similar to Android from a business perspective.
They’re making an OS for free that anyone can install, but they’re doing it to get people to buy software from Steam.
Yeah, you don’t have to use Steam as your software provider, but Android users don’t have to use the Play Store.
Guess where almost all apps are purchased on Android? Valve wants to be the Google of the mobile PC gaming world.
You said it! Valve actively supports OSS and that in many projects from which people beyond games also benefit (yes, they also exist). That Valve with Proton has just made sure that MS monopoly position is no longer so secure (oh wonder that in the most popular games devs then simply turn off linux support in anti-cheat…). ). You can certainly criticize a lot, but valve gives back a lot of things differently. Just no other Play Störe alternatives because the competition only complains, offers a junk launcher with dubious methods to offer a game for free every week… ( no risk but because of fixed amount possibly significantly less the developers… besides, the money comes from fortnite addicted children ). epic ubisoft ea use dirty methods anyway and known 30%… what they are hiding is that the 30% is the case with steam keys. however, they also have the possibility to link it to their own store with their own keys while it would be listed for free on steam only they would have to do without any steam feature ( anti cheat, workshop, forum, support, download from steam depotetc. Oh and have enough servers themselves regarding downloads.
By the way, about your comparison with android… Take a look at their Chromebooks. Have fun gaming!xD
What a strange way to look at it. Does Valve charge double than other store fronts, or did those other store fronts start charging half in an attempt to undercut Valve?
Also I find it strange how you mention things like publishing fees and people not liking games being released on other store fronts instead of Steam while you fail to write a single mention to Steam’s main competitor in those fronts: the Epic Games Store.
Is there a reason for these 2 points, or are they just a coincidence?
What a strange way to look at it. Here Valve is, actively working to addict children to their unregulated gambling market, but yeah, let’s deflect the conversation by protecting them and pointing out how mean we think somebody else is being to them.
It’s ok, you’ll get over it. Happy new year!
Typical ancap response.
What a strange way to wish someone a happy new year back. At least I know what I can gift you for next Christmas. Labels!
I actually typed Origin when I meant to type EGS, which charges 18% to Steam’s 30%.
Because they came way after and are willing to take a loss in hopes of taking out valve … And yet they haven’t.
I’ve heard more stories about CSGO over the years compared to other gambling games, but never heard people criticize the game like they do FIFA. It’s just my corner of the world, where Valve is a holy corporation.
All the sweaty middle-aged dudes with unwashed asses see GabeN as the only good billionaire. They’ll protect him with the same fervor that they use to try and keep women and POC out of gaming.
Honestly, in a lot of ways, I think this video is a miss. In both this video and to a lesser extent the last, he put a lot of the blame on Valve, but also provides a higher standard to Valve than the other companies covered. So much of this video boils down to “Valve uses lootboxes too,” and “Valve needs to do something about this.” without addressing Valve’s position as a market player nor providing any solution for Valve to actually tackle the casino problem. He even says in the video that Valve previously issued takedowns but nothing changed and many of the casinos didn’t even respond to the cease and desist. No other course of action is suggested, and frankly, I don’t see any from Valve that wouldn’t punish victums and unrelated users far more than the casinos.
This isn’t to say Valve is blameless, but Valve is fairly tame for their direct involvement with lootboxes and is competiting directly against companies that use them far more agressively - exactly the reason Coffee previously gave the casinos and those involved with them leniency, and encouraged looking further up the chain. In the same way, I’d say the actual solution here would be for governments to ban underage gambling and enforce those laws - because the more Valve trys to crack down on this or even just avoid it, the more of an advantage the worse players in the space have. Ubisoft and EA have already been attempting to dislodge Steam for years, and its not because they think they can be more moral than Steam.
He did say govt should be involved, and I’d agree generally. Gambling and gambling lite like lootboxes need regulation to die, but Valve is also a massive company running the biggest game storefront in the world, and they don’t need the money from the lootboxes and cuts from selling and trading. They aren’t in direct competition with most game creators, they compete with other storefronts, and it isn’t even close. They could fix this relatively easily and it would barely make a dent in their finances.
They could also leave the lootboxes and gambling up, and just implement an age verification system, one that locks you out of trading until the account is verified 18 or older, and add other tools like locking yourself out of trading or opening boxes similar to how casinos allow you to blacklist yourself for your own good.
In terms of a relatively quick, relatively painless, realistic fix, with a decent timeframe, valve makes the most sense, and they can fix this extremely easily compared to getting every government in the world to agree, implement, and enforce regulations. Ideally, yes, governments fix it. Realistically, kids are getting addicted to gambling and having their lives ruined right now, and valve has the power to stop it. I think it’s fair to ask, and expect a real answer, yes or no.
It’s not his place to provide a solution: he is a journalist exposing a problem. Do you have such expectations for all journalists talking about any topic?
When articles get shared about any other company using micro/macrotransactions, predatory tactics or gambling-related schemes, people’s consensus is unanimous, but when Valve is involved, suddenly people have double standards.
Valve is fairly tame for their direct involvement with lootboxes and is competiting directly against companies that use them far more agressively […] Ubisoft and EA have already been attempting to dislodge Steam for years, and its not because they think they can be more moral than Steam.
Valve could shut down the entire gambling market today and nothing would change to their market position. Steam is not the number one marketplace because of the skin market. They are leaving it as is because it nets them money. I don’t know how can you call Steam “fairly tame” when they are literally allowing multimillion dollar casinos to exist and operate without impunity. They sent a C&D to casinos and then washed their hands of the problem, because ultimately they don’t really care about shutting them down.
They could ban accounts linked to the casinos, but they don’t, because they profit from them. They could have some sort of account-level check to make sure that minors don’t spend their steam gift cards on CS skins (which, by the way, Coffezilla proposes at the end of the video) , but they’d rather use the gambling loophole of “akshually, it’s not gambling as defined by law”. Then they lie through their teeth by saying that they “don’t have any data” supporting the claim that the gambling aspect of the game has profited them by leading to more interest in their games, which is bullshit.
PC players, and Lemmy users in particular, have a huge double standard for Valve.
It’s not his place to provide a solution: he is a journalist exposing a problem. Do you have such expectations for all journalists talking about any topic?
It wouldn’t be his place to provide a solution if he was arguing that the practice is a problem and prehaps pushing for further study. It is his place because throughout the video, he tries to argue that solving the problem is not only possible, but easy - and yet, despite supposedly being easy, his best solution is to basically propose that the industry self-regulate. That is the main issue I have with this video.
Valve could shut down the entire gambling market today and nothing would change to their market position.
And how would they do this without screwing over normal users and victums of the casinos in the process? They can’t get money from these casinos, nor collect casino records to redistribute scammed money. All they can do is disable trading or their marketplace, effectively seizing the poker chips (or metals balls, following Coffee’s pachinko comparison) but doing nothing about the money casinos have taken from victims nor preventing the casinos from either walking away or re-investing in a new casino. To prevent new ones from popping up, you could disable all trading and marketing, but now you’re punishing 132 million users for the acts of a couple thousand.
They could have some sort of account-level check to make sure that minors don’t spend their steam gift cards on CS skins
They could, but A) this is just one game on their platform, and B) this would leave them directly competiting against those who don’t regulate themselves and can make and reinvest significantly more. This is exactly the situation that Coffee argued was systematic and needed to be adressed further up the chain previously.
they’d rather use the gambling loophole of “akshually, it’s not gambling as defined by law”. Then they lie through their teeth by saying that they “don’t have any data” supporting the claim that the gambling aspect of the game has profited them by leading to more interest in their games, which is bullshit.
Again, exactly like their competition. The recent talk of Balatro’s PEGI rating being a prime example, with the industry self-regulation body declaring that virtual slot machines and loot boxes aren’t gambling but featuring poker hands was.
PC players, and Lemmy users in particular, have a huge double standard for Valve.
This is the problem I have with this video. Valve is being held to a different standard, and told to self-regulate while others in this very series are having blame redirected away from them because its unreasonable to expect them to self-regulate.
It wouldn’t be his place to provide a solution if he was arguing that the practice is a problem and prehaps pushing for further study. It is his place because throughout the video, he tries to argue that solving the problem is not only possible, but easy - and yet, despite supposedly being easy, his best solution is to basically propose that the industry self-regulate. That is the main issue I have with this video.
He is not proposing that the entire industry must self-regulate and that it’s the only solution to the problem. He is saying that this specific instance, the CS skin market, could be solved by Valve taking a firm stance, which not only they are not doing, but are actually working against, such as them side-stepping the regulations imposed on them by the French government.
I’m all in for stricter regulations on gambling by government agencies, but that doesn’t mean that the people side-stepping those regulations aren’t to blame too. While they are not doing anything technically illegal, they are purposefully operating in a grey area to profit off vulnerable people.
And how would they do this without screwing over normal users and victums of the casinos in the process? They can’t get money from these casinos, nor collect casino records to redistribute scammed money. All they can do is disable trading or their marketplace, effectively seizing the poker chips (or metals balls, following Coffee’s pachinko comparison) but doing nothing about the money casinos have taken from victims nor preventing the casinos from either walking away or re-investing in a new casino. To prevent new ones from popping up, you could disable all trading and marketing, but now you’re punishing 132 million users for the acts of a couple thousand.
They can’t do anything about the money the casinos have already made, but can stop them by making further money. That happens pretty much all the time in every market.
They could, but A) this is just one game on their platform, and B) this would leave them directly competiting against those who don’t regulate themselves and can make and reinvest significantly more. This is exactly the situation that Coffee argued was systematic and needed to be adressed further up the chain previously.
A) The video is explicitly about Counter Strike and the gambling market surrounding that specific game; not the whole industry. I agree a more systemic approach (ie. on a government level) should be advisable, but until that day comes, Valve could put an end to this specific problem, which they are currently choosing to ignore because they are profiting from it instead;
B) Valve makes literally billions and can invest to their heart’s content. They are not a small indie dev.Again, exactly like their competition. The recent talk of Balatro’s PEGI rating being a prime example, with the industry self-regulation body declaring that virtual slot machines and loot boxes aren’t gambling but featuring poker hands was.
Cool, their competition does it too. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
This is the problem I have with this video. Valve is being held to a different standard, and told to self-regulate while others in this very series are having blame redirected away from them because its unreasonable to expect them to self-regulate.
Valve literally created the market. If you take the bigger share of the profit, you also take the biggest share of the blame. Casinos are obviously bad, but they are ultimately leeching off the system that Valve put in place.
You can’t do anything about the money the casinos have already made, but you can stop them by making further money.
Valve makes literally billions and can invest to their heart’s content. They are not a small indie dev.
So if I understand this right, and I don’t think I am, you’re arguing that valve should just disable the entire CS skin trading and marketing system, current victims and other users be damned, and should stop expecting to make money on their products because they have enough money as it is? That sounds like a ridiculous argument, so please clairify what I’m misunderstanding here.
Edit: fixed typos, and changed phrasing to sound less combative
I’m just saying what they could do if they were willing to. Your argument was that:
A) Valve should not stop casinos from profiting off vulnerable people, because they have already made money off those people and it would somehow be unfair to stop now, which to me sounds ridiculous.
You are using this as an argumentation that the government should ban them instead of Valve, but the end tesult would be the same. The casinos would walk away with the money, and the victims would be left to cry over it.
B) Poor Valve could not compete with their competition if they didn’t have the money they are gaining from their gambling-adjacent market, which to me sounds even more ridiculous. When Epic attempted to pry open the market using one of the biggest and most successful games ever as a leverage, they largely failed because the Steam user base was too entrenched. Steam is literally printing money right now and they don’t need the CS skin money to compete with anyone.
It’s not up to Pokemon to ban pack opening gambling any more than it is valve to ban item gambling.
It’s up to the us government to ban gambling.
I don’t think CSGO skin gambling is worse than draftkings or whatever else runs ads on American tv 24/7
Pokemon doesn’t have direct control of the mechanical system by which pokemon cards are traded. They also don’t get a percentage cut whenever a pokemon card is bought/sold on their storefront, and they don’t take pokemon cards as payment for games, software, and computer hardware. Valve facilitates, profits from, controls, and could ultimately shut down, these online casino spaces. They actively choose not to, and participate in using loopholes (see the xray scanner). Ideally, yes, the government fixes this. Realistically, any solution that isn’t going to take years, and be easily bypassed with a VPN, or just having your company be based in a “sanctuary” country, is going to lie with Valve. Either self enforced or forced by the US govt, they have the means to kill gambling easily because they control the accounts involved, the systems used to trade said items, and the virtual currency players earn. Even something as simple as adding age verification would help. They don’t have to stop, just accept responsibility for having an in game slot machine that spits out items that have real world value, and follow laws and measures to protect minors.
So yes. i hold Valve, a massively profitable company directly facilitating and profiting from its illegal gambling industry to the point where the casinos openly sponsor pro teams to a higher standard than the company that prints pokemon cards, which can be bought and sold and gambled with like any physical good in a physical game of chance.
Getting tired of these “shock” youtube channels drumming up drama for views. It’s only a matter of time before someone points the youtube cannon at these channels.
For fucks sake, Coffee is an investigative journalist, and he didn’t drum up shit. The problem has always been there, you idiots are just too busy sucking GabeN off that you can’t entertain the possibility that he isn’t the second coming of Christ.
How is investigating and calling out scammers and the like “drumming up drama”?
Because I disagree with it!! (/s)
I’m not even gonna lie up until a few months ago I was somehow under the impression that Valve and GabeN weren’t that evil. Learning about his 6th yacht and how they intentionally made loot crates as addictive as possible and target young people kind of put things in perspective. There’s still no such thing as an ethical billionaire.
