Sony believed that they had so much market share that they could make a console that was leaps and bounds more complicated to code for, which would lock devs in and prevent them from going elsewhere, and they’d just have to suck it up because of said market share. Sony was wrong, and they lost out big time that generation (although they did manage to win the Blu-ray vs hd-dvd format wars).
Microsoft seems to believe they have so much market share that they can force people to upgrade to a privacy invading, ai infested piece of crap, and that everyone needs to suck it up because market share.
I’ve already started hearing wind that people, in statistically significant numbers, are finding alternatives… so is this the same situation as the ps3?
Just a passing musing without much to back up the gut feelings.
And then Microsoft made the same mistake with Xbox One+Kinect.
But then quickly stopped making Kinect mandatory. Plus the Kinect was a wonderful piece of hardware.
Seriously they provided a kinect less bundle 6 months after launch
Seriously they provided a kinect less bundle 6 months after launch
I wonder why 🙄.
I would add Xbox One+Kinect+Always online+the used games policy.
That must of been a long shower thinking about this
For many of us, our brains are rolling things around all day but not necessarily completing thoughts or doing anything useful with it. Then, stop focusing on screens or whatever and get into an environment that has little to no mental stimulation, and all that stuff comes crashing out of “the ether” (back of the mind) and assembling at wild speeds. It’s called ADHD*.
*Obviously, there’s more to ADHD than this kind of thing, and people with ADHD aren’t the only ones who find time to think in the shower.
I’ve come to the conclusion that Lemmy has the same thoughts in or out of the shower.
No, more people need to go to Linux or something else that’s not win or mac
Nah it was Wii controller and Wii Sports that Sony lost to. Wii Sports sold over 83M copies, other Wii games like Wii Sports Resort 33M, Wii Play 28M, Wii Fit 22M. Wii controller was what crashed other consoles. That was what put Nintendo back on the top after Nintendo 64 flop. Compare it to PS2 - best Sony console, best sold game is GTA San Andreas and it sold only 17M copies.
What keeps Windows afloat is Office 365 for corporations and companies.
No kid will have Linux at home if their parents work for corpo and are no tech nerds.
They had everything going for it.
The Wii Controller. The Wii Fit. Wii Bowling. That Wii U Streaming device so you could play Wii Sports on the go. They were truly leaps and bounds ahead.
Wii didn’t have a streaming device. Wii U was a sequel console, and the controller was that stupid tablet thing. It connected to the console via Bluetooth, you could only have one connected at a time, and they didn’t sell replacements separately, so if you broke the stupid thing, you had to mail it to Nintendo and wait a month for them to fix it.
I hope those that are iffy about the jump away from microsoft look at valves steam machine and realize they can also use it for more than games. Make a smooth transition from oh this thing only does games to oh I can use it as my PC.
Most people don’t even need a PC these days. They use the phone for everything. There is an entire market of people who have windows pc purely to play games, and nothing else. That’s ripe for the taking.
Maybe for home computing which isn’t their priority. They’ve always had their bread buttered by corporate business
And all the corporations are looking to put all the AI in all the places… because: magic free labor fairy dust, and all that.
The idea that any job done using a computer could be done by the computer is worth 1.5 trillion dollars to them
No way, unlike Windows 11, the PS3 was actually quite a good product.
They don’t know nothin bout that PS Triple
That seems like a very different situation.
Every other version of windows flops or sucks. 98 SE, good. 2k/ME, No. XP, great. Vista,no. 7, great. 8, No.
10…probably the last good Windows unless M$oft unfucks itself and makes 12 good. But I doubt it.
Under the hood, 2K is much different from and more stable than ME.
Definitely wouldn’t equate 2k with ME.
they did manage to win the Blu-ray vs hd-dvd format wars
They didn’t win them: they bought them. Blu-ray won via payola more than popularity or technical superiority. HDDVD has way better error correction and thus longevity, but you can see why corpos wouldn’t want that at the peak of the planned obsolescence / e-waste years.
The PS3 including a BD drive certainly played a part though.
MS tried to push HD-DVD but required a separate device to use it on 360.
It feels like that was the generation of poor console decisions.
Blu-ray appears to have presided over the premium segment of the video-disc market just as it went down the tubes entirely. These days you can buy used DVDs 2 for $0.99, and Blu-Ray for $1.99 each - super 4x premium market they’ve cornered there.
Them being cheap means nothing in reference to the quality… and is also a function of winning the war.
If consumers went with HDDVD you would be saying the same thing about them. Price is a function of production and corps aren’t going to produce a tech en masse consumers don’t want or aren’t purchasing.
Them being cheap means consumers no longer value them - which is what the wars are all about: value translated to sales and profits. Price is a function of what consumers will pay, which has little or nothing to do with what a thing costs to make.
If consumers went with HDDVD you would be saying the same thing about them.
Absolutely. BluRay was Captain of the Titanic, and is going down with the whole physical media ship. Vinyl LPs are the lifeboats.
Are we past said peak, then?
It wouldn’t be the first time a Microsoft OS was a total disaster.
It does more or less follow the age-old Microsoft pattern: One disaster OS, followed by one improved OS people mostly enjoy.
Only problem for them is that this time there’s actually way more viable OS options for average people to turn to, and they’ve simultaneously leaned heavily into surveillance capitalism, monitoring, and AI when all of those things are broadly unwelcome. Its a recipe for a big loss in market share, and I can’t say I don’t love that for them.
we’v e had improved ms oses since 7?
It’s hard to argue that Windows 10 isn’t way better than Windows 7 in terms of user interface, workflow patterns, security, and feature support. Despite the fact that Windows 10 comes with a lot of useless junk. Hell, even the junk it came with (Microsoft Edge, Cortana, OneDrive) is more useful than the junk Windows 7 also came with.
And similarly, while people have a lot of nostalgia for Windows XP, from an absolute standpoint, Windows XP is complete ass as an operating system. It was only good in comparison to Windows 2000, ME, and 98/95.
Why running debloat programs are necessary.
I run a CNC machine at work that runs from a Windows XP PC. Can confirm the OS is still dogshit.
Win 10 was fine.
I really like Linux Mint though.
Linux Mint is great for my 80-year-old grandfather. No Microsoft account BS, and the interface is simple enough for him to learn. He only uses the computer to look at his investments online using Microsoft Edge and play Minesweeper (GNOME Mines seems to be an acceptable replacement for him), and look at old family photos. It runs great on his 6-year-old computer.
gestures at fucking linux
linux is ms?
My bad. I read that as IN OSes not ms OSes. Carry on.
no worries!
gestures at fucking linux
Usually Microsoft releases new versions quickly enough to leap-frog each other, though. Windows 98 was still supported when Windows XP was released, so nobody really needed to use WinME. The same thing happened with Windows Vista and 8. People could always just skip over the especially-shitty versions and wait for the next, not-quite-as-shitty version to come out before upgrading. They can’t do that with Windows 11, though.
When recently onboarding for a new job I heard something I never thought I would hear in my life.
Everyone was given a Mac. Eng, design, finance, HR. Everyone. In my onboarding cohort, someone in finance asked if they could have a Windows PC, which has been the backbone of finance orgs for decades. IT said no. They just didn’t want to deal with Microsoft’s enterprise ecosystem.
Not finance but I always bring this up when ppl argue about android vs iPhone.
Tons and tons of businesses prefer the Apple ecosystem because it just fucking works.
Although, in the v26 operating systems, cracks are showing. A lot of IT orgs are holding off on Tahoe for as long as possible.
As someone who went through this, I would honestly take Window 11’s bs over pos unusable mac.
First time ever I think I felt pain in my wrist from using a trackpad. Absolute clownshow of a UX
I’ll agree that Apple is the big red nose on a much larger clownshow, but… between Microsoft and Mac, I’ll just say that I’ve got a request in with IT for a MacBookPro when funding becomes available. Some of that is because our IT has crippled Windows beyond its usual hobbled state, which is bad enough, and they haven’t hit the OS-X image as hard. But, even so, bone stock Windows 11 on a modern desktop i7 still has HORRIBLE performance issues that OS-X generally doesn’t suffer from. Intrusive virus scanning, intrusive file indexing, intrusive cloud backup… Apple does these things, but generally does them a bit better (though the clowns do mess up plenty along the way.)
I’ve used Ubuntu as my desktop for the past 15 years, it’s a different kind of clownshow - one that I prefer to the other two choices, but it has definite flaws of its own.
Interesting. I’ve got of gripes with Apple hardware (price, upgradability, silly things like notches and Touch Bars,) but trackpads has never been one of them. I’ve always thought the’ve had some of the best trackpads.
What trackpad do you prefer and why?
Oh no the trackpad itself is actually pretty okay. Its the fact that I have to drag a ridiculous length for the subsequent input to match on screen, even with the highest sensitivity setting.
Apple’s ingenious design was to make the trackpad feel like a 1:1 representation of your display, which is why its so huge.
And since way too much stuff in MacOS is functional around mouse clicks, I was constantly swiping all over the place for basic functions.
I think apple users kind of got used to using only their arm, but thats hard for me to do since I’m used to regular old trackpads and mice.
EDIT: Comparatively, I’m fine one something like a thinkpad or even a very cheap HP notebook, so long as the OS or Application UX is cool enough to keep things sensible.
Weird. I never noticed that. I bump mine up a bit from the default, but I don’t max it out. That’s way too fast for me to handle.
I do know there are ton of apps that will override the defaults. I think the OG better touch tool will let you max that thing to warp speed.
When I started at my current job, every new hire was given the choice of a MacBook or Linux laptop. I only encountered one person who chose the former and he only chose that because he thought it’d be funny to use Windows on a MacBook in his professional environment. (We were allowed to do pretty much whatever with our laptops so long as we could fulfill our work duties. My then manager replaced Ubuntu, with which we were provided, with Arch on his laptop.)
Two or so years later, the IT department said that they didn’t really know how to maintain security compliance on Linux, but they did know JAMF. Thus, they took away our customizable Linux laptops and foisted MacBooks on all of us. I’m pretty sure even the Windows guy lost that, but he was an exec so it probably took longer.
I still remember when they announced that this would happen. They said it without a timeline in the company-wide group chat and someone I respected previously and respected more afterwards said “so when are you taking away our good laptops?”
My guess that they’re trying to standardize around a platform that has a) no Microsoft, b) won’t cause product / UX / marketing to totally revolt, c) is well supported as an engineering platform (in Silicon Valley)
I got the same treatment recently. All tech departments were issued M4 Mac Book Pros because that was more cost effective than than dealing with the non-compliant fuckery of W11. Unfortunately non-tech departments got the old inventory and are suffering the abhorrent instability of W11. It somehow refuses to play nice with just about everything in our corporate ecosystem.
That’s nice to see actually. Regular consumers like us don’t have any pull, but businesses do. So I hope more start seeing Microsoft problematic enough to start shifting away to MacOS to get Microsoft to reassess their decisions.
I fear Microsoft will simply not reassess their decisions and we’ll be stuck with Apple, who has historically been much worse about user freedom.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they decide it is because they don’t have even more AI stuff for every single task that their OS isn’t liked more and start shoving in AI into even mouse clicks with “helpful” copilot trying to predict if you are clicking to click or copy and paste.
I don’t know if Apple’s shenanigans are much better with how they’re trying to lock it down
Trying? Have you used a recent version of MacOS?
Shit is locked down as tight as they can get without preventing the ability to be used for development.
But macOS is even more locked down than windows?
IMHO, it depends on the company, their data retention and security policy, and what you mean by “locked down.”
I’ve had IT departments that are comfortable giving everyone admin accounts and full sharing access, and IT departments that control every little thing that goes in and out of your machine.
They specifically mentioned the enterprise ecosystem.
I would not be surprised at all if Apple’s MDM system is less painful to use for smaller businesses than Microsoft’s AD and everything attached to it. Hell it might even be nicer for big orgs, but I’ve never heard of one (apart from the likes of Google) not using AD
Also if you’re already dealing with one of those systems, an IT department is probably motivated to not run both and set up interop if they can avoid it
Used to work for Apple in B2B sales.
Granted, this was five years ago, but back then it was sort of the other way round. The deployment at SMB scale worked really well and was also free of charge.
AT enterprise you would need a third-party solution typically, something like JAMF.
Locked down would probably be a plus for enterprise.
But honestly I’ve never got that argument. In what way is macOS more locked down than Windows? In the hardware that it will run on yes. But for the average user it seems fairly similar on the being “locked down” front.
I mean the hardware thing is huge imo
Sure, but for say the average laptop buyer nowadays not really.
True, but enterprise hardware has never been something that IT departments really wanted to upgrade. Even back when everyone had upgradable towers under their desk, IT departments just wanted to kit you out with something that lasted 3 years, then was replaced.
Hell, in the before times, when I’ve even wanted more storage, all of my IT departments were more inclined to give me an external HD than open a computer case. They’re busy and they generally want to do whatever is fast.
This is definitely becoming more common. I’ve seen Macs steadily gain market share in my organization because the Windows machines are locked down in such draconian ways that they become unusable, but somehow they allow much better user experiences on Macs as an option, so most people go that direction.
Can you install linux on a mac?
Older Intel Macs are some of the best Linux machines. The newer ones with Apple CPUs are a compatibility nightmare.
There is a distro specifically made for Apple CPUs.
Yes, Asahi. It’s still a compatibility nightmare :(
If you can get an old final-intel-gen MBP in decent nick, they can make pretty decent Linux machines if you’re okay with not being able to do any internal hardware upgrades.
tiny-dfr is your friend if you happen to get one with that touchbar F-row, which is probably the only big downside compared to a conventional laptop.
Yes. And Windows too, on the x86 ones. Those are no different than a traditional laptop.
Yup
*At the moment, only M1 and M2 Macs are supported
I don’t think Sony intentionally screwed up PS2s to sell more PS3s though so it’s not an equal comparison.
they screwed up not making ps3s have ps2 backwards compatability outside the first lot of them released. its what ultimately caused me to be an xbox fan because for christmas my dad was gonna get the family a ps3 but when he found out they were no longer backward compatable with ps2 games he got us an xbox 360 instead
they intentionally screwed them up to sell more ps2s. i’m (for the last fifteen years, thank gods) on my third.
lol that’s wild you still pushing a PS2. With nothing more modern or just for funsies?
My collection is not in great condition, but i have managed to keep all my old consoles (I started on 2800) over the years. I haven’t tested the snes or earlier in a while, but last I had a TV I could plug them into they worked.
Those ps2 lasers tho. I have spent so much time taking apart and putting together.
Every once in a while, Microsoft makes fundamental mistakes which they only survive because of their size. Think Microsoft Bob or Windows 8. Looks like Windows 11 is heading in the same direction.
At least we can all agree that Tay was an AI revolutionary way ahead of “her” time. /s
That’s where it’s heading. Because why would I use software I don’t trust at home? New entrepreneurs will be using Linux because it doesn’t sell their data.
I still have the “Intel Celeron Inside” and “Ready for Windows Vista” stickers on my physical trash can at work.
Nobody sees it that way, nobody notices what we notice. They don’t know any alternatives, it has new features so it’s innovating, it does what they want/need. I hear no complaints, only from tech people who are invested in privacy and digital sovereignty. That’s the reality.
This is my impression also. Most people are just “Meh” about it since it’s not that noticeable. A bit more ads, bit more bandwidth use, bit more ram use and a bit slower CPU when performance of websites sucks ass is not that noticeable.
Maybe in the case of windows 11 that will be true, but in the past that has not been the case. When Windows 8 came out regular users were “upgrading” new machines to windows 7.
Those people were still among the minority of PC users.
Microsoft is bleeding power users and PC enthusiasts at an unprecedented rate. This is a great thing for Linux, but they are still absolutely locked into the corporate world and that’s where the money is.
The reality is that Microsoft solved management of corporate policy and identity like 25 years ago and nothing else has come close. It has its problems, but Active Directory is an incredible piece of software. The combination of LDAP, with obfuscation of Kerberos to the point where you don’t even need to know it exists, combined with policy deployment to endpoints is nothing short of a miracle.
Linux has tools for all those things, but none are easy to deploy or configure. If you have to manage thousands of desktops, Windows is still the clear choice
AD and LDAP is notoriously insecure as hell by default. It took until 24H2 for MSFT to enable SMB signing, which was a solid 50% chance for an unauthenticated attacker to reach domain admin on any enterprise network.
There are a lot of solutions that eclipse AD in both quality and scope. It’s just like VMWare, a once solid product that orgs got vendor locked into, and are stuck for life.
It’s a backwards compatibility issue. MS has been telling people for years that defaults are not secure. I have enterprise grade equipment in production that doesn’t support smb signing by default.
Shit is crazy.
If you are a large corporation or government, you’d have the resources to do exactly that. I keep hearing about European governments moving to Linux. And why wouldn’t you? Screw perpetual licensing.
What those EU governments are doing is out of interest for national security rather than hate for licensing. The US has changed drastically in the last decade and getting your sensitive data out of their infrastructure is a top priority.
The cost of change from Windows to Linux is pretty small for an individual. Most people have one or two machines and a handful of programs, none of which are critical to your continued existence.
In the corporate world, you need to be absolutely sure that everything will work flawlessly, which often means weeks or months of testing on top of all your regular IT duties, constant support tickets to obscure software vendors who may not have ever worked with Linux, and if some mission-critical piece of software breaks, then the company cannot operate until it is fixed…or you can continue to use Windows, even though it sucks more now.
I want Linux to have wider adoption in the desktop space, but it’s a catch 22. People aren’t going to move unless the software is guaranteed to work, and Linux-based software isn’t going to be made unless people are using it. This is why Proton was such a big deal. It offered a real option for gaming to move to the platform and now it’s viable and devs are starting to take linux into account.
Its not a guarantee of flawless operation thats required, its a source of liability if something goes wrong. Someone has to be responsible if the latest update blows everything up.
I’m sure large organizations moving to Linux are also choosing a distro that has paid support. It’s probably still cheaper than Microsoft licensing, though.
Now where did I place that consultant…
You keep hearing about the same 3 german states moving to LibreOffice. That’s not quite the same thing.
generally, yes, but it’s a couple more now;
- Austria’s military is moving to open source
- couple of french cities (was is lyon?)
- i think denmark?
- pretty sure there’s a couple others
point being: it’s a clear trend!
it’s slow, yes, but it seems to be picking up steam!
the idea is being seriously discussed at basically all state institutions.
and more importantly: the reason for this trend is clearly data security. which states actually care about. so there’s a very clear and easy to understand incentive, which makes it politically palatable.
we’ll have to see, but the trend seems to be heading in the right direction!
Novell solved directory services 25 years ago. It took MS 10 to catch up.
I was going to reply essentially the same thing! I’m glad someone remembers their IT history. :)
“IT history” :(
Oh, well, time to go back to my crypt.
Haha, recent IT history. :)
You mean Novell royally fucked up Netware and people went to AD at first because of that. But yes, AD was quite new then, mostly an add-on for NT domains (and still sort of is :) try going full kerberos…).
How did Novell mess up netware? If anything Novell should have teamed up with IBM or Apple to take on end user productivity.
Netware 4 was utter garbage. It was horribly buggy if you got it to install. Admins hated it, and then win2k peeped around the corner.
Also, IBM was still big on mainframes and PCs, and OS/2 of course, and hadn’t really that much interest in Netware or Windows then (outsourcing deals aside). Apple was even way farther away from that, completely on their own OS and Appletalk, directories were not really useful for their users then.
Well remember netware had a 250 user limit per server before 4.0. Thats not alot in corp space. I remember running many servers just to handle user auth and logon back with netware 3.12
Wasn’t 4 still a flat directory? I’m talking about 5 when it got serious.
Its been like 3 decades… bit i thought ver 4 introduced the bindery which removed the per server user limit… i moved into networking about that time so im not sure. WindowsNT hadnt been released yet i remember.
I present to you a wild notion:
Adobe OS.
They have the market value and revenue to do what steam is doing.
They could make switching a cost save if the OS integrates vertically with the creative cloud.
To be clear, I don’t want this and would t use it. But any business with licenses would say “wait… Ditch Microsoft ios, and… Poof? Everything works and we pay way less money?”
All that Microsoft provides any business at this point is AD/Azure.
I feel like Microsoft is taking massive Ls between now and 2030. I don’t think Adobe is gonna do this, I’m just saying if they did, it could work. Microsoft is a weak giant right now.
Adobe has been their own worst enemy for decades and their one true skill is fucking things up. The best thing about Adobe trying to make their own OS would be that it could wipe them out.
-signed, a long time bitter former Adobe user that still has to support their shit
Linux is a bad choice for multiple reasons. I wish Linux had better support for games, DAWS (my job) and other software.
Linux has close to the best support for games possible without support from the game developers.
Other windows software usually isn’t quite as good in my experience, but still better than non-native software on any other operating system.
Never used a DAW, so I can’t say anything about that.
I wish Linux had better support for games, DAWS (my job) and other software.
Do you have any examples or details so we can understand your point better?
It runs FL studio and Ableton like complete ass as well as any plugin I need. Has terrible Nvidia support and even worse Intel support.
REAPER is great and has a linux version which is great
Realer is great. Unfortunately I don’t feel like redoing dozens of projects and learning a new daw 😭
FL studio and Ableton through WINE, I presume? That’s really the responsibility of the FL studio and Ableton developers, not Linux. I got Bitwig specifically because it supports Linux natively, and I hear it does it well (I haven’t tried it on Linux yet). From what I understand, the situation with Nvidia is also largely on Nvidia’s camp, although some distributions have gone above and beyond to get their GPUs to work well from the get go, like Pop OS, which I also just installed recently. No idea about Intel, but I thought I had heard that their support (and AMD’s) for Linux was much better than Nvidia’s.
I’m not complaining about Linux. But the lack of support that companies have for it. Seems to be a lack of interpretation somewhere. I have no real problem with Linux other than it mostly require major googling of how terminal works. Windows and even Mac are just simple to use and everything works.
I have used bitwig before too, but I’ve been using FL for almost 20+ years now. I’m not going to change my entire system and knowledge just because a community hates it when someone says windows is easier to use lmao.
That’s all fine and I understand your points and wishes. I think your first reply was downvoted because it was offtopic to the post your were replying to and because it did sound like you were complaining about Linux.
