• Ephera@lemmy.ml
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    1 hour ago

    By some definition of “further”, sure. Mainly the definition someone with no remorse would have.

    • Randomgal@lemmy.ca
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      1 hour ago

      Exactly. OPs logic only works if your definition of happiness is money and going from being the oppressed to the oppressor.

  • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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    2 hours ago

    Yup and add intelligence to the list as well. Smart means nothing if you can’t back it up with being an amoral pile of shit that takes advantage of people every opportunity you get.

  • hitmyspot@aussie.zone
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    5 hours ago

    I’ve got 2 kids in primary school. We teach them to be kind and caring, that cheaters never win. That bullies are bullies because they are not happy.

    However a study came out that compared bullies and non bullies. Bullies kids are more likely to be successful financially and socially based on studies. I was sad for humanity when o found out.

    It makes sense, in the same way that it makes sense that CEO’s are more likely to be sociopaths. Human brains are made for small societies. When it’s a larger society, negative traits can be helpful to get ahead. It’s likely part of the reason we experience wars and famine and billionaires.

    • Saleh@feddit.org
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      4 hours ago

      That is unless the bully messes with the wrong person and gets the shit beaten out of them.

      • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.worldOP
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        2 hours ago

        And then they become adults and find different ways to mess with people, hire bodyguards, expensive lawyers, group up with other corrupt people who find joy in people suffering, shit in their diapers under their suit, etc.

  • Sal@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    Maybe, but it also means that you’ll be alone for eternity and will never have true friends or camaraderie, and that by itself will consume you.

    There is only so many people you can do that to before everyone else catches on and shuns you. All the evil people in the world don’t have any friends and are subject to betrayals and threats in their lives constantly. To me, that’s not a bearable existence. Sure, you got power, but you’re miserable and afraid all the time. Was that really worth it?

      • Saleh@feddit.org
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        4 hours ago

        Does Muskrat seem like a happy and balanced individual to you? What about Coked up Bezos or AI Zuckerberg?

    • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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      5 hours ago

      you’ll be alone for eternity and will never have true friends or camaraderie, and that by itself will consume you.

      I AM a morally decent person who makes efforts to do the right thing. And that last part is STILL true!

      I just don’t like most people.

      • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.worldOP
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        5 hours ago

        Most people are selfish and amoral. When people like that encounter a decent person, they will do what they can to silence them so they aren’t given the chance to expose corruption.

        You probably don’t like most people because most people are walking sacks of shit who would throw you under the bus if it means benefiting themselves

        • Sal@lemmy.world
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          5 hours ago

          You’d be wrong. I’m sorry that you feel this way about humanity, but that is simply not true. And believing that won’t make you a “smart” person. It makes you’re no better than those people, and it also makes you feel worse.

          It might be satisfying in the moment to hate humanity, but that satisfaction is fleeting and addicting. Being a misanthrope just brings the worst version of yourself out.

          • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.worldOP
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            4 hours ago

            Seems condescending to assume I think that belief makes me “smart”. I’m speaking on my experience, that’s the only experience I have. I don’t appreciate you trying to make me out as some kind of angsty teen rebel.

          • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.worldOP
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            4 hours ago

            I want nothing from you other than your social security, bank cards and pins, credit card information, medical information, your first born, your shoe size, favorite color and why, as well as your third born

    • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.worldOP
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      5 hours ago

      There are plenty of corrupt people who are never caught, or even caught and let go with little to no consequences due to their influence and money. As much as I want to live in a world where karma exists and assholes get what they deserve, that is unfortunately not the reality we live in.

      • Maeve@kbin.earth
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        5 hours ago

        Just because we don’t see it or it doesn’t look like we think it should doesn’t mean it’s not real. Imagine being shallow and wanting to marry for how it looks on the outside. Imagine 20 -30 years later realizing you’re stuck in a companionless relationship, but refusing to end it because it makes sense on paper to keep it intact.

        • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.worldOP
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          4 hours ago

          I believe in consequences of your actions of course, but I don’t believe there is some kind of cosmic scale balancing right and wrong. Maybe there is but that’s quite an assumption to make. Lots of old rich men and women end up in that cycle of trading partners in like leased vehicles. Some people don’t care so much for companionship as much as they care about vanity. Sad, yes, but who am I to dictate how some people find happiness.

          • Maeve@kbin.earth
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            4 hours ago

            Maybe they are happy. The people I’ve met living that way seem miserable. That’s really all karma is, cause and effect. We either learn or don’t. I really believe that the kingdoms of heaven (and hell) are inside us. That doesn’t necessarily equate to physical reality, eg, every need met can still leave people miserable, people who seemingly struggle manage to find peace, if not happiness, others who match their physical reality, often we slide among points on the spectrum of being.

            I don’t see it as perfectly balanced or absolute equilibrium. I see it as more of a spiral hourglass that flips like the magnetic poles. But that’s a whole other discussion and I need to develop that concept, as I just surprised myself with it. That’s a sleepy thought.

            • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.worldOP
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              3 hours ago

              I do find that a lot of “bully” type people seem miserable, angry, combatative. That’s likely what drives their lack of empathy though, they don’t care about hurting others because they think in some roundabout way that if everyone is upset then it’s fair. There are a lot of reasons why some people justify the way they live and a lot of them will never willingly change.

              Yes karma is cause and effect but a lot of times the effect won’t happen without human intervention to force it into reality. I would describe that more as social structure or framework. Tomato potato

              • Maeve@kbin.earth
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                3 hours ago

                Outside pressures are often the driving forces of evolution, and affect everything engaged in a particular process. Dawkins talked about this, iirc.

                Anyway, observing a thing changes it. There will always be latent effects. Maybe it’s not about individual learning, but collective learning, with a nod to Dawkins.

                • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.worldOP
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                  3 hours ago

                  It would be great to think one day society would reward good people more often but we are still crawling to that goal

    • Artisian@lemmy.world
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      5 hours ago

      You can be selective with this power; works well for a lot of folks. Have a smallish in group where you’re always upstanding, enjoy all the benefits that our tribal brain craves, and also enjoy the material benefits.

  • Fletcher@lemmy.today
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    5 hours ago

    One doesn’t do the right thing to be rewarded or to ‘get ahead’. One does the right thing because it’s the right thing to do. Selfishness only leads to insecurity and loneliness.

  • Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net
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    5 hours ago

    I mean, yea, that’s how the economy is kinda designed.

    In the employee-employer relationship, the better you are as an employer at manipulating others into working for you while you retain ownership of the revenue, paying employees out percentage of what they generated as a wage while keeping the excess value as profit, is how you make a successful business.

    The business-consumer relationship boils down to a transaction where you want to be the one who has the advantage on the transaction. Sellers want to sell their products for more than they’re worth while the consumers want to buy those products at a discount of their perceived value. The seller’s entire job is to manipulate the consumer into perceiving more value in their products than the base material value of the product to generate a revenue that exceeds the cost of its production to generate profit. That’s like the basis of advertising and marketing.

  • Pencilnoob@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    I disagree, other than a few notable counter examples most times folks are only successful when they build reliable business relationships. Most relationships will dissolve if one party is playing games.

    On average it’s more effective to follow “The No Assholes Rule”. There’s plenty of studies (referenced in the book Good To Great) that indicate that humble business leaders produce build more stable and long term profitable companies.

    Lying manipulators can sometimes get ahead but just as often they get found out and blackballed.

    I think it might be like a game theory type situation where if everyone is honest, then the first liar might get ahead a lot (although I suspect in that situation they’d immediately be shunned by all honest folk if found out). If everyone is a liar then honest folk have nothing to hide and probably will just be really defensive in their dealings.

    • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.worldOP
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      5 hours ago

      Business relationships are almost always purely transactional. When you stop being able to supply someone with what they want or at a good price then they will find someone else. The average CEO is not a friendly selfless person, which is why sociopaths find success in the business world.

      Do you believe that the majority of people who hold power and influence are genuine philanthropists?

      • Duckworthy@piefed.social
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        4 hours ago

        I think power and money corrupts people. Plenty of people who started out as honest business people turn into monsters. As you move up the ladder, less and less people are honest with you. Some are climbing the ladder because they are unhappy and that definitely makes things worse, they think money or power will make them feel better, when actually I’ve found living with less and doing things yourself is ultimately more satisfying.

        Anecdotally, I personally felt how wealth corrupted me - when my economy car was totaled and my insurance rental gave me a Mercedes because they were out of reasonable models . After a week of driving it I started feeling like I was better than other people on the road. Luckily I got a replacement crappy hatchback and became a normal person again.

        • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.worldOP
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          3 hours ago

          I think it’s a combination of power corrupts as well as corrupt people seek power but yes it only gets worse the higher up you go. Lots of people want financial stability so it’s of course a competitive environment which invites dirty tactics.

          Depends, if you were in a b-class then you have about as much aura as a prius. But if you were in a g or s-class you are without a doubt superior to that peon in the pontiac sunfire that’s somehow still running.

      • nomad@infosec.pub
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        5 hours ago

        Business owner here, even if not a very good one. These kinds of CEOs exist, but there are far from the norm. And they usually act that way because the owners of the company expect them to lead that way. There is a crowd mechanic of many people owning some of the stock of a company. It leads to some psychopathy as nobody feels responsible and everybody wants to earn some extra Money. Look into a documentary called “cooperation”.

        Most business people, especially the more successful ones are the classic boys club people. They get good deals by being friends and knowing people that give them access. It leads to a culture where what you earn has more or less nothing to so with what or how good you work. If you know the show billions, watch it and look for the making of episodes. There is a lot of real world experience in the writing.

        • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.worldOP
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          4 hours ago

          I went to business school and worked in corporate for a while, I know our experiences are anecdotal but the ones I know that climbed the corporate ladder the best are the ones who have family connections and/or lie the best. They do come across as charismatic, charming, friendly, because that’s what works.

          If it comes down to a promotion or raise though, they’re obviously not likely to voluntarily give it to someone else who may be more deserving. As a business owner I’m know sure you know when companies get larger, people end up being faceless cogs of the machine and the C suite is more concerned with hitting targets for shareholders.

  • Boomer Humor Doomergod@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    Unless you’re mediocre at it and have adhd and then it’s just easier to always tell the truth so you don’t have to forget about something.

  • Quarkman@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    It’s almost always been this case since the beginning of mankind. Being good does more harm than being bad.