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This
Also when people complain about a game protag being a normal looking woman
That’s nothing, I was forced to play a snake that was eating small dots and getting longer and longer.
Most games don’t bring the characters sexuality into it at all so I wouldn’t consider 99.99% to be particularly accurate. That said I’d prefer if they left romance out of it all together. I’m equally annoyed by having to deal with it in a game regardless of which end of the spectrum it is. Just let me fight/build/solve puzzles/whatever. If I wanted to date someone I’d be doing it in real life.
I’m dissapointed because video game romances are dull as fuck. You hit the correct dialogue choices, have sex, and then they’re just nice to you for the rest of the game. Give me romances that go sideways - maybe they’re so disgusted by you hitting on them they leave the party and re-emerge as a minor antagonist later on, maybe another party member gets jealous and straight on challenges you to a duel, maybe they’re already boinking another party member, anything but the pansexual protagonist that everyone wants to fuck.
I’m even less interested in dealing with “interesting” relationship stuff in a video game. Had more than enough of that in real life. I want escapism, not reminders of trauma.
Bloodborne has the greatest romance story, even a lovely wedding ceremony.
there are surprising amount of incels in many games, and its the one that are trumpers or at least suppor tthem.
they do the same thing with movies and shows, constant complaining about race swapping, genders swapping, “traditional roles” not being adhered to.
I like to play games that let you customize your characters. I usually avoid all games that force me to play as anyone but myself in that universe. I think all games should let you choose who you want to be and who you want to be with if romance is an option.
I dunno, most games the sexuality of the protagonist is completely irrelevant, and in those cases id tell both sides to stop whining or just play a different game
how dare you stating facts
This is a case of double standards.
If you weren’t willing to call it out before when it was heavily one sided, you shouldn’t be calling it out now.
You’re making it relevant by calling it out at the worst possible time.
I’m not seeing the double standard there. Their overall stance sounds like they don’t gaf about anyone complaining about the sexuality of characters in video games because it’s often completely irrelevant to the game itself.
Or did I misunderstand and you mean that since they didn’t call out people complaining about a lack of gay representation they shouldn’t call out everyone complaining now that the complaints go both ways?
I’m not seeing the double standard there.
If you sleep through all the romantic subplots of the last 40 years of RPGs, but you wake up offended when you discover that Ellie and Riley Kiss at the end of The Last of Us: Left Behind, you’re working from a double standard.
you mean that since they didn’t call out people complaining about a lack of gay representation they shouldn’t call out everyone complaining now that the complaints go both ways?
Basically this, yes. Although, generically complaining “Ew! Kissy stuff!” would suffice.
No one gave a fuck about Ellie and Riley kissing in 2014. It wasnt until after the culture wars started that it became a thing. Im still not even sure it is a thing, since everyone was saying that not liking part 2 was only because you dont like “the gayz”. Which is bullshit. The fans of the game, knew for 6 years that Ellie was gay, and that she was going to be the only playable character(which turned out to be bullshit), and everyone was still looking forward to it.
Then the leaks happened, and all of sudden half the fans are bigots…
It just wasn’t clear what the “this” in the comment I replied to was referring to, the OP or the comment it replied to. My own comment assumed it was saying thr comment it replied to had the double standard, but I see now that it might have been agreeing with that comment’s sentiment but saying the OP was about a double standard.
I’m in a perspective of hoping for more romantic subplots of any kind. I never played through any generation of RPGs that made those popular, and when they were there, they were hastily written in, or just optional.
It’s why I’m excited for a certain JRPG remake that puts one such relation (between a guy and a girl) front and center, so much so that it becomes a driving element of the story. Those who know, know I suppose.
One thing that helps in its case is, it doesn’t advertise on the box “Romance 1-1000 characters!!” IMO, a good romantic plot sneaks up on you after you’ve invested in the characters.
It’s why I’m excited for a certain JRPG remake that puts one such relation (between a guy and a girl) front and center, so much so that it becomes a driving element of the story.
Are we talking about FF7 or something else?
IMO, a good romantic plot sneaks up on you after you’ve invested in the characters.
That’s good writing for you.
Honestly, I suppose FF7 is another great example, but I was thinking of the Trails in the Sky remake due out in a month or two.
Sorry if that’s a vague spoiler. It wasn’t even something I knew about the game playing through, but the slow-impact delivery of it worked fantastically.
I thought I was pretty up on my JRPGs, but I’ve literally never heard of this franchise before today.
I’m calling it out right now because someone posted a meme and I’m replying to that post. I am not against more representation in video games, and I find people who whine about it to be annoying children.
Also, nobody is forcing anybody to play a game. Every gamer already chooses to not play most of the games that exist. What’s one more?
“The game is forcing me to fuck this man, repeatedly”
What?! That’s terrible! How?! How can I replicate that so that I don’t accidentally do it?!
I was personally upset that ME:A doesn’t let you replay any sex scenes or romance anyone else after choosing one.
You get one little like 2:00-long cutscene of some humping and caressing and then it’s back to business as usual.
Could I skip it? Yes, but I paid for this content so now I have to see it to get my money’s worth. It’s not my fault I’m doing it, it’s the woke™!
Aww I ruined the conversation I gotta save scum the assgfuck scene again
No one is forced to be straight… Most games don’t even have romances.
Like you think Doom Guy is straight because he’s clearly a Christian? When I control him, he’s the gayest queen in Hell. 🤷♂️
No one is forced to be straight…
Virtually every JRPG has a straight romance subplot, typically staring the main character. Every FF since… six? Every Dragon Quest. Every Persona. Kingdom Hearts. Fucking Mario Brothers has a straight romance in it.
Like you think Doom Guy is straight because he’s clearly a Christian?
I think you can head-cannon that the two dudes in Time Crisis are having hard core steamy Special Agent on Special Agent lovemakings in between chapters. Fine and good.
But when Arno & Elise kiss in Assassin’s Creed Unity? I’m sorry, but nobody needs to see that heteronormative degenerate filth. Kids are playing that game. What are they going to grow up thinking?
I feel like your point about ACU is good, but I also feel like the Arno/Elise romance is a driving factor for his character. Sure, it’s unfortunate it’s yet another straight romance story, and I feel like an argument could be made that it almost should have been a gay romance between two boys who grew up together. Idk where I’m really going with this besides I think the romance in general is the point and not the fact that it’s with Elise, a woman.
Sure, it’s unfortunate it’s yet another straight romance story
I’m not really begrudging the straightness of the romance. More scoffing at the double standard. Nobody who complains about non-hetero romance seems to mind this
It took me a couple times rereading your comment this morning to really realize what you mean.
And I agree with your point fully.
For Mario and Peach, Nintendo has had decades to do something and hasn’t. They officially confirmed they’re just friends I believe.
For Kingdom Hearts, it’s a similar thing with Sora and Kairi. There are some undertones and potentially attraction but they’re just friends, and children besides. They haven’t done so much as kiss. Plus with Birth by Sleep it’s shown that Sora literally has had another dude inside him for years.
Those relationships are straight-coded as heck though, there’s no way you could flip genders on Peach or Kairi and not have the result be interpreted by gamers as super gay.
SoraXRiku what’s this kairi bullshit
exACTly
nobody needs to see that heteronormative degenerate filth. Kids are playing that game.
Wow, didn’t expect someone speaking so loudly about same sex relationships to be so bigoted, but all walks of life, I guess. Either way, I seriously hope you have no interaction with anyone below the age of 30 personally or professionally.
I’m not gonna even get into how romance is just a part of a story, and if you read anything that has romance in it, fanfic or not, it has just as much a right to exist.
I will however rip into you pointing out franchises for ‘heteronormative degenerate filth’. First, the game isn’t about you. No game ever is, nor ever will be. If that is a moral failing of a game, I suggest you start making games yourself or stop playing them, because any other expectation is really stupid beyond compare.
I will concede that games often lure you into self inserting yourself into the main character, as JRPGs tend to do. But at some point, the illusion has to break, and I can’t really imagine how you’d get mad if you’re self inserting into Zidane (FF IX protagonist) or even Leon or Cloud ( I hope you know enough about franchises you’re trash talking to know who they are).
Also, to complain about the Assassin’s Creed franchise of all things is so braindead I have to question if you’re a plant. You’re saying children are playing a game whose whole premise is premediated murder, and the romance scenes are what you’re up in arms about? That is honestly beneath anything that breathes to acknowledge, and really shows that critical thinking is a skill.
Do note, however, that if children are playing a game with mature content in it? That’s the parent’s responsibility as an individual to care for their child. Games aren’t obligated to include or exclude content to suit children, nor even whiny little shits like yourself.
I think it was satire
Wooooooooooosh
I think user is joking or trolling
I feel moved! imagine a 6’7 monster like human, ripping apart monsters to save a rabbit, but its a total drag queen outside the outer space
Doom Guy is canonically ace. But the story is still vague on wether he is panromantic or not.
I’d much rather play as a woman.
I’m cis, my character in Saints row ended up trans because I wasn’t a fan of dressing up a guy and wanted to dress up a woman.
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yeah I have gender dysmorphia. Gender Dysmorphia that I don’t look like He-Man as someone assigned male at birth.
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Hi, I spent a few years unpacking those feelings to figure out that I like crossdressing more than I like being the gender opposite my birth. One of the things that made it more confusing in the beginning was the slew of internet comments I would read reinforcing that any gender nonconforming activity was a sure sign I was trans.
If you know the person irl and they consistently show signs of being trans I think it’s good to ask probing questions that may lead them there, but I don’t think it’s right to tell them who they are. Better for them to figure it out themselves. On the internet you definitely don’t know the person beyond a single post, or a few posts coming from their online persona (not their personal self). This means you have even less right to tell them who they are.
Especially with the TM I took your initial comment as a joke, which I don’t find super funny anymore personally but can give a half smile and single roll of the eyes. Your edit about people unpacking their feelings implies to me that you were saying it in earnest though, which is where I start to have a problem for the reasons above. Just in case you want some insight on why you may be downvoted so much.
Yeah, no. You don’t have to try to make everything into more than it is. I’d be perfectly fine being trans. No hard feelings. I’m not though, but I sometimes play female characters because I prefer looking at them. It’s not more than that.
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So what? They didn’t say they weren’t. In fact, they said they were.
You sound like an AI slop caricature of a blue-haired teacher telling kids they’re trans.
Not everyone you disagree with sounds like AI slop.
Not by a long shot, but that person sure does.
Which LLM says things like “still cis though”?
The phrasing isn’t exactly dead on, but normal people don’t go around trying to convince others they’re trans for stupid reasons.
“ai slop” slop
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Why do we still attention to tiny loud minority of GamersTM who whinge about “go woke go broke” and yet these still games sell like hotcakes? Just tell them that if they don’t like the game, then don’t buy the game.
I prefer to clown on them relentlessly and let them be aware that everyone thinks their opinion is stupid and childish
Allowing this to go unchecked or ignored is how we got here in the first place. “Just ignore the trolls” led to the trolls having actual societal inertia. It is no longer enough to just ignore them, they need pushback.
I don’t disagree. If they troll, troll them back harder. But the way the mainstream act is that these toxic GamersTM opinions have weight, when in reality their toxic views don’t even make a dent to popular opinions and sales of game developers.
There’s a whole thing right now where companies are caving to right-wing pressure about “adult” games. It’s not smart to ignore this.
Tbh, I’m not even sure where most people get exposed to these whiny gamers. Maybe I’m just lucky that the places I spend time on online and offline don’t overlap much with these weirdly conservative gamers who seem to forget that the moral panic conservatives tried to use to ban games they love.
I’ve noticed a lot of things liberals bag on conservatives for are things they don’t say IRL. The converse is true! We pick the most outrageous statements and say, “SEE! That’s what they’re all like!”
Preach, brother! Youve nailed it.
Literally I’ve talked to people like this. Usually when I was younger, but people aren’t known for growing up. And then there are Facebook comments that are just horrendous cesspools. Also the fact that 99% of conservative politicians are openly homophobic/sexist/etc. and that never seems to disqualify or register with their base and actually improves their chances.
No, many conservatives say some pretty awful shit on the regular and you’re either lying or ignorant.
A lot of Facebook comments are filled with these people. Every once in a while I’ll go there and see an onslaught of people whining about it but generally I keep to saner places. Hell, a woman goes anywhere near a lead role and someone like Ben Shapiro, who has plenty of loyal followers, is right there to bitch and moan about it.
There are plenty of these people around, and I remember even in person when I was younger hearing about people whine about a single gay cahracter in a movie so it is not surprising at all.
Who the fuck is still using facebook???
A lot of people, especially a lot conservatives, and being weird about it doesn’t make it untrue.
You know, I dont mind you saying “maga”. But I cant get on board with “conservatives”. They arent all one thing, any more than democrats are. In fact, you cant even say “maga” as a lot of them still want to see the Epstein files. Maybe just say “cunts” :)
Maga can still want to see the Epstein files. Conservatives I’m just so fucking tired of because there is no amount of evidence you can show them that will convince them that their backwards ideology is wrong. It all hinges on hyper-individualistic nonsense based on not sharing, and the entire ideology was created by people who believed that poor people were dirty and they did it because they didn’t like that the parasitic monarchs where being treated how they deserved.
A grown adult screaming about low taxes on the rich and throwing in with people who consistently want to strip people of their basic human rights is not a serious person. “I like gay people though!” well you keep voting for homophobes and giving them power so piss off. The internet is a thing, there’s no excuse anymore, and I’m done with these unserious jokers who can’t read or do basic math enough to know that none of their ideas work at any level.
Its fine to disagree with people. Dems and republicans for decades, disagreed, but respected the system. And just got on with it. Look at the state of it now? Neither of you trusts the system. You are both locked into this social media driven culture war, to the point that if you dont win an election, you call it rigged. The MAGAtards went further, raiding the capital and seemingly some were ready to kidnap and kill. But in general, republicans arent like that. They have different values to you, thats true. But they also believe that in the end, you are all Americans. MAGA isnt that.
Think about the time that old biddy started talking shit about Obama to John McCain, and he shot it down quick as fuck. He wouldnt allow his own supporters to lie about the content of Obamas character. THAT is your general Republican. Not MAGA chuds.
You can talk to a republican, maybe even see eye to eye on some issues. You can have an informed debate. You can have that with MAGA. All you get is lies and screaming. And the danger is, if you keep on confusing the two, you end up forcing them together and then you do have one big raging group of cunts. And no one wants that.
No one is. But we are all exposed to people moaning about them, while looking for upvotes…
All I ever see is an ocean of positive comments everywhere. And the moaning is always, like the person youre replying to. Using buzzwords and positive message to get up arrows… Like they matter at all.
Oh my sweet summer child.
gotta be twitter
Why do we still attention to tiny loud minority of GamersTM
Because a lot of them are well-funded or have big far-right promoters behind them, affording their opinions a disproportionately large megaphone.
Just tell them that if they don’t like the game, then don’t buy the game.
They make money by complaining. This is their entire business model.
Never liked this lumping of everyone into oversimplified “gamers” as if it’s anything different besides conservatives who happen to play games.
It is always conservatives. In any hobby.
Not just any hobby, any country. You think this country still uses fax machines and are a bunch of racists? You think that country doesn’t believe in vaccines and elected a moron? You think that country is committing a genocide?
There’s a reason that particular cohort is mockingly referred to as capital-G GamersTM.
Exactly.
In many cases, not even forced, just given the option to play as a non-straight character in a way that’s mostly irrelevant to the actual game!
I’m not aware of a single game that forces one to play as a homosexual. Anyone?
Can’t find any for explicitly homosexual male main characters, but Horizon Zero Dawn and The Last of Us both feature explicitly homosexual female main characters.
Aloy is a lesbian? Was that introduced in the second game? I’m not against it, just surprised
When playing the first game I just assumed she wasn’t willing to deal with guys’ flirting bullshit.
Apparently it was confirmed in the Burning Shores dlc when she kisses Seyka.
I did read somewhere that the kiss and romance subplot is optional, but either way it still basically confirms Aloy is attracted to women.
I haven’t played the sequel yet, just read about it.
A kiss isn’t definite proof she’s a lesbian. Ever hear of a brojob?
^FYI this is a joke^
That’s never going to happen. Male sexually just gives people the ick these days. It sucks, but I don’t know what can be done. Even liberals will throw gay men under the bus
Always like to use the Last of Us as a example. If Joel and Tommy were lovers, instead of brothers. How would the story change? The answer of course being, it wouldnt. Joel would still be awesome. But what would be different, is that the character wouldnt be bogged down in social media pandering dogshit.
I think most people who object to LGBT characters, do so because they are almost always caricatures of stereotypes laced with perpetually online social commentary. Ellie is probably one the best LGBT characters ever created. Because shes just a human being, with flaws, hopes, dreams, fears and all the rest. Anyone can relate to her.
Unfortunately, the chuds will object to any representation of any minority. It does not matter how irrelevant their sexuality or race or gender is to the plot. Unless they’re hypersexualized for the male gaze, that is.
Who gives a fuck about the chuds? They are the minority. The focus on them blows them up, like they are some kind of major threat to the world. But the reality is, they are a small group of sad losers who cant get girls to touch them, and spend too much time jerking off to jailbait cartoons under the guise that “shes really a 400 year old demon, so its fine…”.
People, in general, dont like badly written characters. Thats why everyone made fun of that shitty new Dragon age game. The hyper focus on all things lgbt, and so little focus on the story and characters. You coudnt even be an asshole to anyone, but you could do push ups for getting pro nouns wrong…
LGBT people, are just people. This insistence that all they ever do is sit around talking about being LGBT is bullshit. They play games, they watch movies, they go on dates, they cos play, they worry about making rent, they cry after bad break ups, they have hopes, and dreams, fears and nightmares. They are human beings. But modern day “representation” forgets this so often, and just turns them into caricatures. And then only people who like that shit, and the perpetually online. And when I say like it, I mean they can use it for their social media clout chasing.
Like I said, Ellie is a great LGBT character because shes a real character, warts and all. We need more representation like that.
Kingdom hearts?
I don’t think there are any confirmed gays in that series. The closest I could find was a fanon wiki with an LGBT characters category.
i contest reality’s position. no one is gayer for riku than sora. quod erat demonstratum, reality is wrong
Fear Effect? Although that was mostly just marketing.
Would be nice if you could play a gay dude. It feels like most lbgtq representation is only women
Yes! It’s that whole disgusting “two chicks at the same time” trope that allows them to get away with it more, I assume.
Also sexism. Women can do it because they’re silly creatures who don’t know what they’re doing without a man controlling them so obviously being a leanian is acceptable. But a man choosing to do those things? He should know better
To me it also kinda rhymes with the way bisexual men vs bisexual women are often regarded in wider society. “Bisexual men are actually gay” while “bisexual women are actually straight”. So only the part of their attraction that relates to men is taken seriously 😐
Sexism for sure, in all sorts of permutations.
Women with a sex drive must be bi. Therefore bi women are hot.
Of course women can mess around with women, it’s not “real sex”.
She just needs a “real man”.
It’s so gross, and makes no sense to me. Guys seem much more situationally indiscriminate, sailors, people in jail, and honestly who cares if their guy is bi? Either you are monogamous and it’s a non-issue, or you aren’t, and your opportunity is wider for fun stuff than with a straight guy. No downside I can see.
“forced” to play
because the path of the gamer isn’t a choice™
Honest question, can anyone actually name a mainstream game where the main playable character is canonically and explicitly portrayed as gay?
I honestly can’t even think of one.
last of us?
Last of Us.
Life is Strange games.
Guild Wars 2
Yes, Life is Strange and The Last of Us. Pretty major games
Life is Strange series, Before the Storm. Not sure about the others.
That’s what makes it even more pathetic, literally just being given the option of a gay subplot is having it shoved down their throats.
It’s so ridiculous that I question how many of the complaints we see online are even sincere, because surely people aren’t that dumb.
A bunch of characters in Apex Legends are canonically gay, trans, nonbinary, bi, pansexual, and Mirage. As a hero shooter, I guess there’s no real “main” character as such.
Aloy in Horizon is pretty much there if the Burning Shores DLC is any indication, although she seems to be a work in progress as a fully developed person.
I remember when dinoflask did YTPs of Overwatch’s lead designer, he poked fun at how, whenever the game needed a progressive image boost, they would retcon a character to be gay at random. He sentence-mixed something like “Our fans are always wondering who’s going to be gay on our next update.”
FFXIV. Like the whole raid tier for Gia and Rynne.
Mainstream? No, but my character decided he was gay in Disco Elysium.
In baldurs gate 3 people of the same gender certainly hit on you. Basically all romancible characters have player characters as their sexual orientation
The MISSING: J J Macfield and the Island of Memories is a great one.
Ending
Psyche. Though much of the dialog and written messages could lead you, like myself, to believe Macfield is a closeted lesbian undergoing community/family abuse for her quiet obsessions with a girl…it’s actually the less common form of LGBT. Macfield is a closet trans woman; much of the game’s horrific bodily mutilation themes take a stand-in for the dysphoria of being uncomfortable in her own masculine body. Of course, many of the same types who’d retch at a gay protagonist would throw up at the idea of being someone they didn’t identify with - which ironically is exactly what the game is teaching you.
I have an example that’s not gay, but trans - one of the two protagonists of Tell Me Why is a trans guy. (The other protagonist is his cisgender twin sister.)
Yuji Naka once said that NiGHTs gender was “up for interpretation”, which I think makes them nonbinary. That’s a pretty deep cut though.
I remember reading about that because I went on a SA2 Chao Garden binge at one point and really got into trying to get a perfect flying one, I even went and played a bit of Into Dreams and read the wiki.
It’s because they’re “dream beings” and don’t really truly exist so they have no gender.
I will ask a different question. In how many mainstream games can you actually confirm the main character is straight? Sure it may be more than the two examples of gay main characters, but still very few compared to where it just doesn’t come up.
Pretty much every GTA, Duke Nukem, the Witcher series, the God of War series, Yakuza, Unchartered, the Final Fantasy games, the Super Mario games (including Donkey Kong), even Pac-man… and that’s just the ones I’ve played. Then you’ve got virtually everything featuring Disney characters, Star Wars, as well as most other TV and movie tie-in games (of which there are many).
That’s the thing about defaultism, is you can play a straight character and not even remember you’ve done it because it’s just the default. I’ll bet you didn’t even notice that Pac-man was canonically straight, and yet if Ms. Pac-man was instead called “Pacman’s Husband Steve”, suddenly Pac-man’s one defining trait would be his sexuality.
If nothing else, you’ve provided an object lesson in just how true OP’s meme is.
I’ll bet you didn’t even notice that Pac-man was canonically straight
Well, I never played the official Pac-man so yeah, had no way to notice.
But while you do have a point about defaultism, I still believe large majority of games just doesn’t say one way or another, which is as it should be.
