I will happily switch over once libinput isn’t absolute ass with my touchpad! Or if I could adjust its settings in any meaningful way!! Or if you could let me use my old touchpad driver!!!
Until then you can attempt to pry x11 from my cold undead still-animated hands
Plasma devs are currently focusing on input devices. Ideal time to offer them to help test your device and get amazing support out of it.
Or you could sit on your ass and do nothing, which is essentially gambling that they’ll happen to support it (or your next device) when you’re forced to switch at some point in the future.
Zoom still doesn’t work right on Wayland.
Possibly, yet against their best efforts, their shit works better now, see the end of this comment. But first:
I’ve ranted about this before, but Zoom is bone-chillingly badly written software. It’s also the only piece of software that I’ve never seen the code of, but will make comments about code quality and development practice with 100% certainty.
Zoom has broken for me in so many many completely insane and creative ways that the only explanation is that they have nobody keeping things in check and just an army of interns hacking away at things half-assedly until they “work”.
If there are 3 nice and standard ways to do things that can be easily googled, Zoom does a given thing in 2 more ass-backwards ways that make no sense and are fragile as fuck. E.g. they did screen sharing using GNOME’s screenshot API, at a time when every tutorial told you to use the dedicated cross-DE screencast API. When called out, they switched to a different GNOME API.
I think at this point they finally fixed it by actually using the API people told them to use years earlier, but who knows what other inane mistakes are still there to prevent things from working.
no screen sharing software works on it.
Liar. Proof by contradiction: Everything I use works (KDE Plasma).
- Discord
- Slack
- Teams
- even Zoom, despite being a dogshit pile of hacks
I don’t appreciate being called a liar either, fuckface.
now we’re even.
Well… you just said no software works. They’ve given you counter examples, now you either have to cite examples of software not working with screen sharing or you’re the fool
- teams
- slack
- zoom
- Firefox browser capture for web screen share
never have I had any of these work for me, I’m not the only one either.
still doesn’t make me a liar and we can both be right.
Then you should have said “for me” or “on my machine”, but instead you said “no screen sharing software works on it” in a context where “it” can only be interpreted as Wayland in general.
And that’s wrong and you know it.
You said “no screen sharing software”.
- That’s wrong
- It’s pretty much impossible that you don’t know that some screen sharing software works on Wayland
Consequently, that was a lie. Or you suck at expressing yourself and meant something different than what you wrote. But as written, definitely a lie.
What you said is literally incorrect. There are screen sharing applications that work on Wayland. I just used one ten minutes ago.
so you’re sticking with “it works on my machine” then. cool.
also incorrect does not mean liar.
incorrect means not correct.
You said “no screen sharing software works on it”. If “it” is anything other than your POS laptop, then you’re a fucking liar
if I’m a liar you’re a fuckface.
This is your freedom, enjoy it.
Been there for a year plus. Catch up
When Debian Trixie with GNOME started with Wayland by default, I switched too. It’s not bad I guess.
deleted by creator
Wayland is the one thing that fixed a whole shit-ton of my problems overnight and now I find out nobody wants to use it under any circumstances.
¯\(ツ)/¯ Alrighty thenAlmost everyone uses it. We just never make posts about “our configuration works effortlessly, give us attention”
Only people with a bone to chew and shit to stir feel the need to post such things. Back in the day it was people who felt superior for debugging their steaming pile of init shell spaghetti, now it’s people who just can’t live without diving into X11 configuration files.
Plenty use it without knowing as it is what the Steam Deck uses in gaming mode.
My child will never see more than 8-bit color
x11 when you try to use 2 monitors that don’t have the exact same atomic composition:
I think it took me 2 years to get six monitors on two GPUs working consistently under X11. Yes, I’m that fucking stubborn.
Wayland worked right from the start.
Weird. I have to switch all my machines to x11 in order to get multiple monitors working. Wayland just renders back screens on everything but main. Also makes remote desktop access buggy as fuck if it works at all.
Yeah, my multimonitor experience is better under x11, especially gaming (also Lutris has more features for x11 too in that regard). I only use it on that machine tho.
I still use X11 & will continue to do so for as long as possible. Wayland’s not bad, X11 just seems to works better…
It really just boils down to what you’re trying to do. Which is why choice is good, as always
I like XFCE because is simple and my PC is a toaster with an NVIDIA card so…whenever I have XFCE on Wayland I’ll switch to it.
Meanwhile I’m here on Wayland because it does things that x11 doesn’t.
Like wreck the playability of your games? ;)
You must use a different Wayland than I do.
I play competitive multiplayer games with VRR on a 4k240 monitor in a tiling wm with direct scanout. Color management support (HDR, 10bit, anything beyond 8bit sRGB) is also coming along.
I’ve never had a better working setup than this. Everything on X was painful. Even just getting vsync to work properly used to be tricky in some cases.
I agree that wayland does miss features compared to X but a lot of them are conscious design decisions and don’t affect me personally. For example running graphical applications remotely through e.g. SSH or the complete lack of security allowing any application to easily read my keyboard input.
If by “WRECK” you mean “improve” yes.
Xorg never worked quite right for me with multiple displays of different resolutions, orientations and refresh rates. Even after extensive setup, I would get screen tearing effects all the time. In wayland, everything just works OOTB for me.
I set TearFree in the mesa driver settings (not sure if it’s amd only?) so there’s no tearing even without vsync, I have a small 50hz display and a 1080p 120hz without issues
According to the X11 devs, it’s all a pile of hacks to shoehorn in features like this. Some things would have never been properly possible with it. So why it might work for you, it’ll never work for everyone.
if variable high refresh rate on my game monitor while discord and YouTube run at 60hz on the other wrecks playability, then definitely
I’m not one of those people who loves tearing though, so its good enough for me
It actually does wreck the playability of games for me by disabling the ctrl and shift key. A known issue no one has bothered to look into. I cant complain tho, theyre working their butts off for free
As someone else said: Linux Mint is late to the Wayland party, use a more robust DE when you want to talk about what “Wayland” can and can’t do.
Im on boring mint, and Wayland sucks on it. Literally disables my ctrl and shift keys, and volume keys, and backgrounds are only black. Unusable. And I have all amd, 13 year old cpu. Oh and it screws up video playback
Mint is pretty late to the Wayland party with Cinnamon. It’s probably one of the worst distros to try to use Wayland on.
I’ve tried a few distros recently (Bazzite, Nobara, Debian…), all with Plasma+Wayland, and none of them work with my Wacom Intuos. Nobara with Gnome works fine (that’s what I’m using in the meantime), albeit with a limited feature set: can’t remap tablet area, can’t use or remap the tablet buttons.
So, I’ve narrowed it down to something inbetween Plasma and Wayland. That’s all I know for nowI use the tablet as a pointing device -using a mouse hurts my wrist after roughly 20mn (old injury). So it really is an accessibility issue…
I have said this a few times before, apologies, but I’m hammering it because it’s not notorious enough.
But I think that is wayland too, so I don’t think that’s the reason
Input devices (including tablets) is one of the 3 current overarching Goals of the KDE project, so now might be a good time to get involved with testing.
https://community.kde.org/Goals/Input
https://kde.org/goals/libinput is a major component in that area. you should ask around here: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libinput/libinput also have a look at the existing open/closed issues
Thanks ! Wacom support just replied to me with a link to their linux packages repo, I have some reading ahead of me
I would post about it on the Fedora forums with details about what doesn’t work and details about your injury. (If you are willing)
Yes, I might do that, thanks for the advice.
It’s fucking weird people have such strong opinions about issues like X11 and systemd. They’re meant to be working in the background away from the user, and that’s exactly how I treat them. Actually systemd still provides some functions a user might have to interact with manually, for X11 I’m just baffled.
When I take an uber, I don’t care whether the car has an automatic or manual transmission.
I think the average user wouldn’t care, Linux just attracts nerds. And I think it’s totally fine and even good that people care how their computer works—it shows that users care about their software working for them, rather than just wanting to go along with whatever is given to them. I think a lot of the positions people take about these things are very silly, but I’d still prefer someone to have a silly opinion about X11/Wayland or pid 1 than to not have an opinion at all. It’s nice that users are being actively involved in deciding what they want their system to be; it’s a nice change from the average user who’s like “well microsoft is screenshotting my screen every 5 seconds and feeding it into copilot now, guess I’m going along with that”.
Gnome forced me onto Wayland a few weeks ago and I’ve been dealing with issues ever since. Some issues even affecting the most basic level tasks like typing text, imagine dealing with that in 2025. Following your analogy, if the Uber with the fancy new transmission came to a halt every kilometre, you’d care too.
I was an early adopter years back, so I reported bugs while I could still switch back when I needed to (which ended up being once to screen share with Zoom)
If you had done this, you wouldn’t be forced into a buggy environment now.
Same here. All amd. 13 year old cpu. Wayland has a ton of issues and 0 noticeable improvements for me.
Nvidia?
Not even, amd on both my laptop and desktop, but still lots of issues. None of them major, but it adds up.
When I take an uber, I don’t care whether the car has an automatic or manual transmission. But I care what MY CAR has! Especially since there isn’t a shop for my car and I have to do all my own maintenance. Like, init/systemd is a huge architectural change, it’s weird to you that people who depend on their computer to perform whatever function gives their life meaning and viability want to have a functional grasp of their system? That’s a big change to absorb for essentially no practical benefit to the problem domain.
If you only live in the GUI layer, you aren’t the driver. The implementation details are abstracted away from you. Your software are the real uber drivers, you’re just being driven around.
I found that systemd actually simplified all the things I was doing on sysvinit. BUT, I did hold out until Debian testing stopped supporting sysvinit, and I think waiting gave me a better experience.
With X11 -> Wayland, the main thing holding me back finding a tiling compositor that will work under Plasma and is packaged for Debian and the learning at least the basics. My XMonad configuration isn’t that special, but I’m really quite used to not having to re-arrange my own windows, and being able to move/resize/refocus all with the home row and modifier keys. So, I’m probably going to wait until Debian testing ships a Plasma that doesn’t support X11, and have to do some learning then.
I used to use some features that only worked on x11. Slowly I found alternatives or workarounds on wayland. So I understand the sentiment. Imagine you book an uber but it’s electric so they say you can’t book a ride that’s too long
I love your metaphor because it is exactly the kind of pedantry that is usually at play with X11 vs Wayland.
“I can’t take an electric uber because it has an effective range less than 400 miles!”
Who the fuck takes a uber to a destination over 4 hours away?
A normal person rents a car, takes a bus, catches a train or buys a plane ticket. Ain’t no one faring a uber for a long trip to another city. But that’s exactly the kind of complaints from people obsessively clinging to X11. They have a hyper specific use case or workflow that almost no one else uses.
Or maybe they’re developers that are tired of the wheel being reimplemented?
Eg.
https://www.jwz.org/blog/2025/06/wayland-screenshots/Every single person has different problems and priorities, and until hyper specific use cases/workflows work on Wayland, many will stay on Xorg.
People who just complain and stay in some deprecated tech (instead of reporting bugs and working with the new way) will have a rude awakening when it’s just no longer supported.
I’m not saying everyone should be a early adopter, but this timeline was more than forgiving. People who did nothing but keep using the X11 GNOME session might run into Wayland session bugs now that they could have reported years ago.
Some may have bugs that fully break the session, and reporting bugs comes with a new problem: if you do, odds are someone will dismiss it, and/or tell you to fix it yourself.
Hmm, especially GNOME devs are definitely very opinionated, but “running a Wayland session on halfway-contemporary hardware” is definitely something all DE devs want to support.
So if you give them workable information, you won’t be dismissed.
I understand and agree. Anyone who has a super specific use case that means they still use X11, go ahead, no one is stopping them. But to complain or trash Wayland on that basis is asinine. Every single change in paradigm breaks someone’s workflow, that’s impossible to avoid. But the responsible thing to do is to adapt either with new tools and resources, or with a slight change in workflow. They act like people are taking away their toy, when in reality it is just adding to the pile of available toys. But they are upset because their toy is old and won’t get repaired anymore, while the new toy is slightly different but a bit easier to clean and repair, so they get upset at the other kids for playing with it. Ignoring that the new toy doesn’t make the old toy disappear.
The problem is many distros are going to stop shipping Xorg, because it is “not needed” anymore.
That’s where the adapt part comes in.
I had a friend who collected CRTs and VHS players right at the turn from DVD to bluray. He didn’t argue to kill LCDs, HD video or CDs. He didn’t wrote to Sony to complain that he couldn’t find VHS on Walmart anymore or that his hyper specific CC format didn’t work on DVD the exact same way it did on VHS. He accepted that tech culture shifted and that to keep his hobby up he had to take up a lot of the upfront work of maintaining old tech alive. He learned to repair old CRTs and VHSs and keeps them running for libraries. Even collaborating to digitize particularly niche historical content.
In my eyes, it’s the same deal as conservatives coping with the changing world. There is a version where they just shut up and let the rest of the tech landscape improve while they happily stick to the X they know (X.org or even XLibre).
while they happily stick to the X they know
Getting left behind is the natural and inevitable consequence of obsolescence.
Huh, why do I hear someone shouting about Windows 11 requiring TPM?
Yes, the people who refuse to either upgrade to Win11-compatible hardware or move to an OS compatible with their existing hardware will eventually get left behind. Both in terms of security and compatibility. It’s happened many times, from the fall of AGP in favour of PCIE, to every time Intel inroduced a new CPU socket. X11 is the next.
Bring in politics is a choice
You aren’t wrong though
Unless I’m terribly misunderstanding the word’s meaning (or anglophones once again redefined a word to reflect their current sensibilities), “conservative” doesn’t automatically imply politics, just that someone is resistant to new ideas. A person who only listens to music produced before the 20th century and goes into a rage when video game music composers are mentioned is a conservative, but not in terms of political views.
The issue is that in the political landscape, that word has shifted away from its social meaning. “Conservatives” in the US and parts of Europe are actually reactionaries, i.e. people pushing back against the status quo wanting to “return” to some idealized past that never existed like that.
So using the word “conservative” in its original sense might not be understood by people.
I’d have to change desktop environments, because my current one only has “experimental” support in the latest version, and my distro is years behind, anyway. Your choices are pretty much KDE, Gnome or building your own desktop with a standalone window manager, and I don’t like any of those options.
Fair, although I never understood why people choose Mint and so on.
Plasma is so configurable that you can just make it look and act like you want, right?
So I guess it’s getting the GNOME experience (everything is simple, no setup) but with a classic desktop paradigm?
There are still existing issues with wayland that do not exist on X11. I’m talking, using last-gen consumer grade hardware that will break basic applications like, who knows, a web browser. Meanwhile the “upside” are extremely marginal to a lot of people. Different screen scaling isn’t implemented using proper DPI on most implementations, variable refresh rate is not something most people care about (I sure don’t care that my second monitor is capped at 120Hz instead of 144Hz because of my first monitor), etc.
So, yeah, for some people, it’s not a matter of preference, it’s a matter of having a stable, working system vs. a broken system where basic features are not a given.
If you took an uber and the car was a horse-driven carriage and your seat was a hole in a rotted plank, you’d complain.
