- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
My eScooter weighs 42 pounds.
A 28 pound motor that’s 750 kW?
Holy fuck.
That’s power density straight out of science fiction
If we put electrified tracks down we could all drive ridiculously overpowered tiny traincars.
Ah they’re rating motors like they used to rate speakers?
https://www.amazon.ca/Mr-Dj-PSE65BT-Portable-Rechargeable/dp/B078BT8DB4
1000 hp = 0.75 MW. If 98% efficient that’s 15KW of heat dissipation Sounds like a subsystem bigger than the motor.
Yep, I noticed that, you’re right. And that’s near-miraculous efficiency. The maker’s website sez: “YASA also estimates that its all-important continuous power will be in the region of 350kW-400kW (469bhp-536bhp).” It also sez: "To achieve a 750kW short-term peak rating and a density of 59kW/kg … " Devi’ls in the details … The image on the ‘superblondie’ page shows A LOT of cooling built into whatever metal that is: https://supercarblondie.com/wp-content/uploads/YASA-tiny-electric-motor.webp
Sez. I lol’d
Had an ex-friend who was a motorhead arguing that electric motors will never beat ICE because they lack comparable torque. Look, I’m no mechanic, but I never got my head around that.
“You mean they don’t have enough torque to run a US destroyer?! Someone should call the Navy.”
Seriously, if you’ve played with even a tiny electric motor, provide DC, it goes, instantly. What could he have possibly been trying to say?
“EVs lack comparable torque to ICE” - guy in my rearview mirror
He was trying to say that he spent too much time in a media bubble disconnected from reality.
I think he was trying to admit he doesn’t know shit about electric motors.
My parents had an original Prius and it was a weedy little car that made those two hippies really happy. If that was his only experience with electric cars I can see why he’d think that.
But the new ones are fucking rockets. I just don’t understand why they need all that. Can they make a cheaper one that’s got 300 horsepower?
I put my hybrid into sport mode when I actually need the acceleration, like quick highway merges or cramped city turns in traffic. If I kept it in eco mode like I normally do, or even just normal mode, the acceleration would be limited and I’d either be unable to merge or would cause an accident.
Yeah drivers in my area are shitty, I know. Unfortunately I can’t flip a switch and change their behavior.
Also sometimes it’s just plain fun to go zoom (when safe, obviously).
. I just don’t understand why they need all that.
Power sells, they can give that insane 0-60 sprint for very low cost, so it gets people to buy their product instead of a 6 liter V8.
I guess I’m really lamenting the death of the shitbox econo car.
I need to torque a shit
Ah good thing the batteries are not the heavy part of the system otherwise this would be awkward.
This motor weighs 12.7 kilograms and has 1000hp. How much does a comparable motor weigh?
There is a 1000 hp tesla with 3 motors that all together weights about 450 killograms, this seems to support your idea until you look at how much the batteries weigh…
The batteries are 550 kilograms to start, and are generally considered to not be big enough. So yeah, great they solved the issue that no EV had (EVs always had lighter motors, and very heavy batteries).
Edit: The 1000 hp telsa is 2200 Kg total, so yeah this would cut out 400 ish Kgs (assuming cooling and inverter and all that) from the total, not nothing but not really a game changer ether. Also 1000 Hp engine is stupid and not needed, maybe if it was a 200 Hp version but then also that would be diminishing returns as this motor would be what 4 kgs?
~20% weight reduction for a total vehicle weight isn’t small change. Plus batteries will continue to improve as well. Do you just get off on being negative?
Yeah, I’m not sure how they concluded in their edit that 400kg is not a lot to shed.
Put the big battery pack (and maybe an ICE powered generator + fuel) on a trailer for cruising, then have a “ditch trailer and escape” button for that 20 mile sprint at the end of the trip.
Ah, yes. I too enjoy staging my road tripping vehicle like an interplanetary rocket.
Doomer comment
Once I figured out it was an axial flux prototype motor this whole article made sense.
Nerd
Lol:
The new YASA axial flux motor weighs just 28 pounds, or about the same as a small dog.
However, it delivers a jaw-dropping 750 kilowatts of power, which is the equivalent of 1,005 horsepower.
I feel like we’d need peak horsepower output of a small dog to truly understand this.
If it’s a Corgi, I would estimate the power output at .1 horsepower max. But if it’s a small dog the size of a large dog, then that’s something entirely different.
But dog’s cost money…
ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney.jpg
Just so we’re clear, you do not get any of my profits.
Dog is cost money?
Well, editor is cost money, too.
A dog’s power output comes from its muscle mass, which for a healthy dog is about 45% of its total body weight. This gives our 28-pound dog roughly 12.57 lbs (or 5.7 kg) of muscle.
Studies of animal muscle show that the peak power output of vertebrate muscle tissue during a short, explosive burst (like a jump or the start of a sprint) is around 100 to 200 watts per kilogram of muscle.
Now we can estimate the dog’s peak power:
- Low estimate: 5.7 kg of muscle x 100 W/kg = 570 watts
- High estimate: 5.7 kg of muscle x 200 W/kg = 1140 watts
Converting these figures to horsepower (1 horsepower = 746 watts):
- Low estimate: 570 W / 746 ≈ 0.76 horsepower
- High estimate: 1140 W / 746 ≈ 1.5 horsepower
So, a small 28-pound dog might be able to generate a peak power of around 0.75 to 1.5 horsepower for a very brief moment.
So this YASA motor is somewhere between 670 and 1,340 times more powerful than the dog it’s being compared to in weight. That’s some jaw-dropping power output.
I tried to sanity-test the math here running the same calculations on a 700 kg horse, of which around 50% mass is muscle.
700 kg x 50% = 350 kg
Low:
350 kg x 100 W/kg = 35,000 W
35,000 W / 746 ≈ 47 hp
High:
350 kg x 200 W/kg = 70,000 W
70,000 W / 746 ≈ 94 hp
Despite what the term “horsepower” would seem to suggest, a horse can actually output more than one horsepower. Estimates put peak output of a horse around 12-15 hp. By those numbers, even the low end estimate above is around 3-4x too high. We’re gonna need more dogs.
We’re gonna need more dogs.
I accept your terms.
Horsepower was originally used to describe the work that a horse could do over the course of an hour. Specifically, the number of times an hour a horse could turn a mill wheel at a brewery. These are estimates of peak power, not sustained power, so I would say that it’s accurate that horses can produce significantly more than one horsepower in short bursts.
I appreciate the sanity check, but just to throw a monkey wrench into your model…
I think the square-cube law will bite you here. I expect power/mass isn’t constant. Mass grows faster than cross-sectional area which is key in muscle performance.
Fair
Might be my favorite thread today. Thank you, polite and nerdy strangers.
I’m guessing that would be if every muscle was being used for propulsion at any given time. You’d need to allow for heart and lungs, as well as face, neck, tail muscles that don’t contribute to power output, plus legs don’t provide continuous power as they need to make a return trip.
If we really wanted to optimise a dog for power:weight there are quite a few systems we could do away with. But it would likely result in a less floofy doggo, so it’s obviously not an option.
Stop burning the planet down to generate social media comments about shit you don’t understand
Stop burning the planet to tell people what to burn the planet for.
If I’m not mistaken, you specifically showed an interest in better understanding this.
I recognise their username. It’s half sane takes, half absolute wankery with them.
-
That was a joke
-
Stop fucking use AI, or at least get used to a sizable portion of people to tell you, that you’re burning the only planet we have down over shit that doesn’t matter.
Username checks out
-
you made an offhand joke and got mad at him for continuing the joke?
Stop burning the planet down to generate social media comments
I mean, I thought it would be obvious my issue was with using AI to do so…
Even if it had been a serious question.
But, to be fair I was thinking of what a normal.person would be able to parse, and not people who’s critical thinking had already atrophied from offloading to AI.
They probably don’t have any idea what I meant and would need it explicitly spelled out.
I didn’t realize it even was ai generated. but even if it is, that’s still a fairly off-putting way to respond.
but even if it is, that’s still a fairly off-putting way to respond.
No you’re right…
It’s not like it’s literally burning our planet down and the people profiting off it aren’t tech bro fascists…
attacking someone will never change someone’s mind.
How do you know they’re not running a local model? Ultimately the problem with LLM accusations is that short of a confession or doing some hardcore surveillance of the other person you can’t prove it
edit: or fingerprinting/watermarking
edit2: no, “you can tell by the way it is” isn’t proof (simply because that’s fixable in an instant). even if you’re the smartest person on the internet. and again, it could be a local model.
Ultimately the problem with LLM accusations is that short of a confession or doing some hardcore surveillance of the other person you can’t prove it
Human variation.
Ironically you would have to take the others person word on it, luckily you just said you were comfortable doing so.
Some people are statistically insignificant, and to them lots of stuff is incredibly obvious and they’re constantly frustrated others can’t see it. They might even sink sizeable free time into explaining random shit, just to practice not losing their temper when people can’t see the obvious.
So you might not be able to tell that was AI from a glance, but humans are pattern recognition machines and we’re not all equally good at it.
So believe a “llm accusation” or not, but some people absolutely can pick out a chatbot response, especially when taking the two seconds to glance at typical comments from a user profile.
Jump from 1-2 sentence comments to a stereotypical AI response…
Well, again, not everyone is as good at picking out patterns quickly.
To some what took me literally under 10 seconds and two clicks counts as “hardcore surveillance” because it would take them a long time to figure it out.
Don’t assume everyone else is exactly like you.
1 dogpower obviously. /s
Americans will use ANYTHING to avoid metric.
What if we compromise on fractional thousandths of a kilodog?
1/1000 of a kilodog is just a dog bro
I took it more as a dig at Americans honestly…
The second line is KW hours compared to HP.
And the English still use pounds for weight and stuff pretty regularly.
So pounds and KW hours for them.
Small dogs and HP for Americans.
You can talk horsepower and dogpower all day, but I won’t really understand until you convert it to bananapower, for scale.
For all non Brits: 1 dogpower = 1005 horsepower It’s an imperial unit. You’re welcome.
or about the same as a small dog.
Americans will use anything but the metric system
Something something anything but metric…
Hopefully the numbers are correct. The article however is shockingly terribly written.
I wonder if we’ll ever get enough standardization across EVs so people can start doing the electric equivalent of an LS swap.
I could see this being done on a Slate truck, along with an auxiliary EV battery bolted in the back.It’s more about the batteries than the motor. You can make a motor that sucks down as much power as you want. The battery can’t necessarily provide that without damage.
Hopefully solid-state batteries (once their production manages to ramp up to consumer vehicle scale) could allow for higher capacity and power delivery without the limitations or safety risks of current battery tech.
Current capacity, safety and power delivery are fine for most purposes, really.
LFP batteries really solved battery fires - they can’t produce their own oxygen like older NMC batteries, so they just get really hot and die instead of going off like fireworks.
Once you get past 300 miles, you’re pushing the limits of the average bladder and you need to stop before the car does.
With current electric trucks, if you’re doing some city driving and plug the truck in when you take a break, a truck driver will run out of hours before the truck runs out of range.
I mean, I guess. Power output isn’t what I’m really hoping for on new battery tech. What we have is perfectly capable of 0-60 times that only thoroughbred performance street cars can meet (like Ariel Atom territory), and the top speed is plenty.
Once you’re putting down 500hp, tires start to become a limiting factor. The torque that goes behind that number can stress the limit on all but the largest tires with the stickiest compounds.
Safety, range, and weight reduction of new battery tech are great, though.
Yep, I have an EV and the way my partner drove it just eats through tires. We’re talking about $1.5k, 50k mile warranty tires being replaced at 20-25k because someone liked to pretend they’re a fucking astronaut on launch day.
Not bitter.
I also have an EV and tires need changing way faster, for sure. The original tires were replaced only after 2 years, but I just love taking off on that animal, so, I’ll be wasting more money on tires.
So you get another set under the warranty? Maybe even twice?
I wish! The tire shop said that the last set was damaged by excessive acceleration, so they wouldn’t honor the warranty. I can’t argue - our EV has over 600 horsepower and almost 900 lb-ft of torque, so my partner is just destroying those poor tires.
Oof, I’d question how they could even determine that beyond “shouldn’t have worn that fast” but I suppose they know what they’re doing…
Like this?
I’m gonna slap one on my fixie.
Having a powerful motor is nice, but you still have to power it.
Easy! Just make this:
With this:
I’m gonna slap two on my fixie.
I was going to shit all over this thing, but if it can do ~500hp continuously that’s awesome. Wonder what kind of efficiency it has and what the cooling requirements are. That low weight puts us back into unsprung wheel motor territory, especially if it scales down well.
Oh man, continuous 500hp, 1k short burst at each wheel. I think my car caught fire just thinking about it…
Every time I get a faster car I need better tyres so the wheels never spin… The fuck kind of tyres would I need to stop 1000hp at each wheel spinning?
Just have the marketing department call them “Full Self Sticking” and then they literally can’t lose grip.
Anything but metric!
Horsepower is a pretty standard way to advertise things in the automotive industry…
1000 horses sounds cooler than 735 electrical pixies a second.
And somehow also more impressive than one Zeus per minute
But horses are measured in hands, average of 16 hands so 16000 hands, 8000 people. That’s like 1 electrical pixie per 11 people
Well the metric version is about 1014 PS, but honestly the difference between horsepower and pferdestärke is pretty negligible.
Sadly “745 kW” doesn’t sound as cool as “1000 horsepower.”
What are you on about? The metric unit for power is the Watt
Watt? 🤔
What are you on about? The metric unit for power is the Watt
They said anything but metric. The SI unit for power is the Watt, sure, but there are other metric units that are not SI units. One of these is the metric horsepower. 1 metric horsepower is defined as the amount of power required to raise 75kg of mass 1 meter in 1 second against Earth’s gravity. I used pferdestärke because automakers use the “PS” abbreviation in my experience.
This unit exists as an attempt to have a value comparable to historic mechanical horsepower measurements but defined with metric terms.
Obviously Watts are the preferred unit for most things, but the automotive world still likes horsepower. So, metric horsepower.
Colloquially “metric” means the SI-system though. It’s not all prescriptively correct terms. Hell, even the name isn’t, as the French and English couldn’t
So I’m not goanna say your wrong per se. But you’re not exactly right either
So I’m not goanna say your wrong per se. But you’re not exactly right either
In what way am I not right? We’re talking about an electric motor for automobiles, and I gave a metric unit that automakers use. What’s more, I also gave it in kW! 🤣
Automakers using a unit doesn’t make it metric.
Got it. Metric horsepower isn’t metric. Forgive me for thinking a recognized metric unit is metric. And also for not putting the kW conversion in bold or something.
🙄
This, in a folding, commuter e-bike.
*guns throttle* Tires and tube liquify, blast apart, rim rapidly grinds to nothing against the pavement, spokes rocket in all directions. Onlookers remark: “pretty cool way to go out…” And then give the 🤘 hand gesture
Electric cars are already awesome but they’re just getting started. In a few years an ICE car will look like even more of a pathetic fossil (pun intended) than it does today.
Going to take more than a few years to turn this around. I highly doubt I will be able to afford a new EV to replace our 2002, 2004 and 2014 vehicles.
